|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 28, 2013 1:43:55 GMT -5
Kool. Well, like I said, either way is fine I think for ML it makes sense to score by rounds... even in general, I think I prefer round by round scoring, but I'll go take a look at some of the earlier decison fights to see what the difference is.
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Mar 28, 2013 1:58:17 GMT -5
The difference is your mom +1.
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 28, 2013 2:02:53 GMT -5
The difference is if Ben Askren lays on you for 4 rounds, then you almost knock him out in the 5th but he survives, he will win a "round-by-round" decision, but you will win a "full fight" decision.
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Mar 28, 2013 2:35:36 GMT -5
Yes, and his opponents I'm pretty sure gets Aids. I say that, because Aaron Ward told me so.
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 29, 2013 13:24:51 GMT -5
The difference is if Ben Askren lays on you for 4 rounds, then you almost knock him out in the 5th but he survives, he will win a "round-by-round" decision, but you will win a "full fight" decision. Not according the ones I just looked at. Seemed to me that the fighter that actually did more won the fights, from what I saw anyways. The senario above is kind of ridiculous, cuzI'm sorry but if a fighter only shows up in the 5th round and wins the the fight based on a "full fight" decision, that's just retarded.
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 29, 2013 15:18:18 GMT -5
It makes more sense based on most ways one considers another a winner of a fight.
If you think laying on someone for 3 rounds then getting beaten up badly for 2 rounds means you should win a fight, then you'd love the lay and pray artists, and should have picked Ben Askren yourself.
The round scoring leads to point-pushing. The full-fight scoring makes people FIGHT. Just because you lost the first 2 rounds, doesn't mean you can;t win the fight. In the UFC, it pretty much does.
|
|
Ferocity
Black Belt (5th Degree)
Posts: 3,455
|
Post by Ferocity on Mar 31, 2013 21:44:40 GMT -5
Well the poll is locked, but I think the right decision was made. We can always go back to the 'old' way later.
|
|
|
Post by xx - Team GAP on Apr 1, 2013 2:44:54 GMT -5
Lay and pray gets a bad rep. If you can control your opponent for 4 rounds and you tire yourself out and you lose the 5th round you should not lose the fight. In this case I am considering control the same as aggresion.. If you are the one pushing the pace of the fight.. you're winning the fight. unfortunately for most people ... I'll lay on you for 5 rounds is a boring fight. Most people want an exciting fight. But There have been many exciting and very technical fights that have been completely on the ground.. and you got 2 styles of fighting that you need to master in MMA... ground game and stand up fighting.. stand up is more exciting cause you see some crazy knock outs where ground fighting is more technical and you see Tap out submissions. I personally like to see some guys who are good at stand up and some people who are ground guys... because it forces fighter to be well rounded instead of just having KO specialists.. or lay and pray specialists.. It's called mixed martial arts... not KO Martial arts.. or lay and pray martial arts.
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 1, 2013 11:29:55 GMT -5
It makes more sense based on most ways one considers another a winner of a fight. If you think laying on someone for 3 rounds then getting beaten up badly for 2 rounds means you should win a fight, then you'd love the lay and pray artists, and should have picked Ben Askren yourself. The round scoring leads to point-pushing. The full-fight scoring makes people FIGHT. Just because you lost the first 2 rounds, doesn't mean you can;t win the fight. In the UFC, it pretty much does. I have to disagree. (and agree with GAP) If you control your opponent for most of the fight and take a few good shots in one round, you shouldn't lose that fight. From what I saw of the decisions that were scored like this early on, none of them were like that and the right person won due to strikes landed, takedowns, etc.; the way it should be. I understand you want "exciting" fight Sandman, but even the best fighters in the world put up duds sometimes. Also, I think this could level out the playing field a little in the ML division and give some fighters lie Dawson atleast a fighting chance at winning that otherwise wouldn't under the whole fight scoring.
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Apr 1, 2013 12:02:55 GMT -5
If you get in a fight, and one guy breaks another guys nose, jaw, and ribs, and the other guy walks away with a sweat, should the guy who walked out mangled win the fight? Come on now. I get you and GAP share bodily fluids, but there are some things even your broken logic would be able to comprehend.
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 1, 2013 12:11:59 GMT -5
If you get in a fight, and one guy breaks another guys nose, jaw, and ribs, and the other guy walks away with a sweat, should the guy who walked out mangled win the fight? Come on now. I get you and GAP share bodily fluids, but there are some things even your broken logic would be able to comprehend. There's no broken logic here. I'm basing this on what I saw from reading the early fights that went to decision that were scored this way. Your point here is moot though, anyone that walks out with an injury doesn't win the fight in either way that it's scored. I just happen to think that scoring the fights by round is more fair. I've said it countless times that I thought the judges decision was way off because the stats don't match the actual decision in terms of shots landed, takedowns, etc. but the guy who did less scored the win because he had one little flurry one point in the fight, or none at all really, but still won. That's not right either.
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Apr 1, 2013 12:14:29 GMT -5
In real life MMA (I know, you don't watch it or anything, just believe me) guys win fights with broken noses, jaws, arms, etc, all the time. This damage can be done in one round. So the logic I am using here is not moot (FINALLY you used that word correctly). A guy can get mangled in the last round after laying on a guy for 2 rounds (in a 3 round fight) and still win the fight.
At a certain point, you have to remember it's a FIGHT. The point is to beat up your opponent. Wrestling is supposed to be a TOOL, not a crutch.
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 1, 2013 12:21:56 GMT -5
In real life MMA (I know, you don't watch it or anything, just believe me) guys win fights with broken noses, jaws, arms, etc, all the time. This damage can be done in one round. So the logic I am using here is not moot (FINALLY you used that word correctly). A guy can get mangled in the last round after laying on a guy for 2 rounds (in a 3 round fight) and still win the fight. At a certain point, you have to remember it's a FIGHT. The point is to beat up your opponent. Wrestling is supposed to be a TOOL, not a crutch. Yes, they do.... but not in our simulator. You get injured, no matter how stupid the injury is, you're done. That's why your logic here is moot. And I do see your point some what, however, if there's no mangling happening at all and the wrestler is controlling his opponents movements and not allowing his opponent to get anything going, why should the fighter that wasn't able to do anything get rewarded with a win for doing nothing or at the very least landing 1-2 shots? Wrestling is a tool, not a crutch, but for some fighters like wrestlers & BJJ artists, that's their bread and butter. They shouldn't get penalized for doing what their training dictates they should do, that's just silly.
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Apr 1, 2013 13:04:13 GMT -5
Yes, they do.... but not in our simulator. You get injured, no matter how stupid the injury is, you're done. This is not true. Guys get lots of small-medium injuries. It's only when the ref checks a serious injury do fights get stopped. There are DUMB injury stoppages, sure, but even here, I have seen guys fight with serious injuries. I don't post nor check all the damage, because it would prolong each sim by about an hour, but lots of small injuries happen. Just nothing fight-stopping. Unless it was fight-stopping and the fight stops.
|
|
|
Post by xx - Team GAP on Apr 2, 2013 2:34:18 GMT -5
ok so sandman.. You get a lucky punch in at me in the first round of a fight between you and I and you break my jaw... but I use my BJJ skills and wrestling skills (yes I am formally trained in both of these techniques in Real Life)to control you and to not allow you to hit me again for the other 4 rounds. How do you score this fight? Do you say the one punch that you got in was enough to hurt me and thus i should lose.. or do you say I controlled the majority of the fight? It comes down to the way the judge thinks. Personally I feel that whoever is doing the most in the fight should win.
On a seperate note: say you take me down and your beginning to try to ground and pound.. but i tie you up so you can't do anything and I fight from my back... who wins.. the aggressor? or the guy playing great defence?
There are many different examples you can say where One guy should win but if the other guy is fighting back it may not go the way you think in the judges eyes. But the guy who dominates most rounds should win. That means every round you need to come out and fight hard. Just cause you have a bad round you can recover from it and you can fight back stronger in the next round.
Now one more point: In real life you can have several tactics to win a fight. for example If I was to fight kruze his tactic may be to stand up and try to punch me and deny me a takedown and my tactic may be to lay down immediately and let him come to me so i can work the ground game. Tactics wins technical fights, muscles do not.. in fact BJJ is built on this principle. It' s not called boxing.. it's called mixed martial arts. You gotta mix it up.. and stand up may be your preferred style in MMA that you like.. and maybe you like KO's more than submissions.. but you have to realize that judges look at the entire fight and they look for Control, Damage, aggrssion, takedowns, unanswered strikes, all of which are way of winning points. you need to take all of these into account in order to figure out who wins. You cannot ignore any of these you can only look at all as a judge otherwise your not doing a good job as a judge.
|
|