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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 21, 2015 18:15:14 GMT -5
Not really when you're the one that actually encouraged me to go ahead and carry a large roster yourself man.... now you're wanting punish me for it after you were all for it? That's kind of hypocritical of you, especially when you're the next one down from me in roster size at 19, yet I guarantee you that you won't be penalizing yourself any fights. Who are you dropping? 1) I encouraged you to have a large roster when you got points for all your posts and arguments. It worked well then. Now, your posts are irrelevant, and your roster has grown. It is affecting how many fights people have, and some have expressed frustration at that. There are more members here than just you, you know. 2) You want some number drops? I'm game. But I'm tied with Cannon for 19 - that's 8 less fighters than you have. If you want to bring in roster limits so I lose fighters, that's fine, but Cannon will be affected if we hit 18, and if we go lower, your friend GAP will be affected also, since he carries 18 bodies. If we go down to 15, Byron would also be affected. Me, as manager of the Sandmen, I am totally cool with that. Are you prepared to lose 12 bodies, Kruzey boy? On the other hand, since you bring up losing fighters and roster sacrifices, we could set a clean fighter cap of 20. It would not even affect 92% of the league at all - other than they would get more fights. What makes more sense to you, a cap of 18 or less that affects nearly a third of the league, or a cap of a clean 20 that only affects one dude? I'm game for any of those. Just say the word, bro. Ball's in your court - now we'll see why the hypocrite is.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 21, 2015 18:27:40 GMT -5
Not really when you're the one that actually encouraged me to go ahead and carry a large roster yourself man.... now you're wanting punish me for it after you were all for it? That's kind of hypocritical of you, especially when you're the next one down from me in roster size at 19, yet I guarantee you that you won't be penalizing yourself any fights. Who are you dropping? 1) I encouraged you to have a large roster when you got points for all your posts and arguments. It worked well then. Now, your posts are irrelevant, and your roster has grown. It is affecting how many fights people have, and some have expressed frustration at that. There are more members here than just you, you know. 2) You want some number drops? I'm game. But I'm tied with Cannon for 19 - that's 8 less fighters than you have. If you want to bring in roster limits so I lose fighters, that's fine, but Cannon will be affected if we hit 18, and if we go lower, your friend GAP will be affected also, since he carries 18 bodies. If we go down to 15, Byron would also be affected. Me, as manager of the Sandmen, I am totally cool with that. Are you prepared to lose 12 bodies, Kruzey boy? On the other hand, since you bring up losing fighters and roster sacrifices, we could set a clean fighter cap of 20. It would not even affect 92% of the league at all - other than they would get more fights. What makes more sense to you, a cap of 18 or less that affects nearly a third of the league, or a cap of a clean 20 that only affects one dude? I'm game for any of those. Just say the word, bro. Ball's in your court - now we'll see why the hypocrite is. I never said I wanted a cap at all, nor did I say I wouldn't make roster moves. lol I even said when I drafted Browne that I was planning on making some moves this off season. You're the one suggesting a roster cap now. I have no problem moving a few of my fighters in 2 for 1 deal or outright selling them to teams that need/want them. And you acting like a condescending prick about it when this wasn't even the question you asked about, is really not helping matters at all. Your question was: We'll start with a question - Do you think having your fighters fight only 3, maybe 4 times a season is a problem?Most folks in here agree that 3 is acceptable.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 21, 2015 18:42:52 GMT -5
What I won't do just drop a bunch of fighters for 1 point that I have put more than a point of investment into them over the last 15 seasons or fighters that are ranked on our tiered coupled with your new thing where RL champions have a higher cap. Those fighters are worth more than a point, even you know that.
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Post by The Rocketmen on Dec 21, 2015 19:03:09 GMT -5
1. You said yourself that no one is even offering you anything for said fighters, so their value being worth more than 1 point per piece is incorrect. The market set the price, and the price was "i don't want that yo."
2. You said yourself that you're essentially carrying a third of a division of women, yet some teams only have one fighter in that division. Do you not think the reason that is is due to your hoarding of the average-above average fighters leaving only inconsequential fighters in free agents to be picked up? Which further sets a spread from top to bottom in competition in those divisions? You've literally created that problem by having the entire fucking division.
So, basically, 1 member's selfishness has cost the following:
1. A weak women's division from hoarding, and minimal point application across the board to said fighters, thereby maintaining average fighters in a stagnant division, and preventing others from accessing said fighter to raise the quality and competition of the division.
AND
2. Forcing all other members to receive fewer fighter for their smaller roster to accommodate an excessively high roster of average-tiered names and fighters that the league has determined to be essentially valueless on the open trade market.
Bravo. You broke the site.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 21, 2015 20:00:35 GMT -5
1. You said yourself that no one is even offering you anything for said fighters, so their value being worth more than 1 point per piece is incorrect. The market set the price, and the price was "i don't want that yo." 2. You said yourself that you're essentially carrying a third of a division of women, yet some teams only have one fighter in that division. Do you not think the reason that is is due to your hoarding of the average-above average fighters leaving only inconsequential fighters in free agents to be picked up? Which further sets a spread from top to bottom in competition in those divisions? You've literally created that problem by having the entire fucking division. 1) You've always yourself have always claimed to have interest in Martin Kampmann yet I have never once received an offer for him from you. There probably are some of them that maybe worth a point a piece, but others I've spent in excess of 10 points on that are worth 2-3 and even 4 points. You can see from their season record this year that they are. 2) I have 6 BWs, yes, but there's only one team that has only 1 BW, and that's Dozers. So no, as it pertains to the BWs, I don't think that it's due to my "hoarding" at all. It's the FWs that we have a majority of teams with only 1 on their roster. Cannon's got that distinction of having the most of them at 5 FWs, followed by me, Sandman, Dozers & Byron that have 4 apiece. That's literally where I can see hoarding being an issue because between the 5 of us, we are more or less the entire division. So no, me having 6 BWs isn't me creating the big fucking problem across the entire fucking division right now... it's the FWs that need to be dispersed more evenly, and not just by me. So, basically, 1 member's selfishness has cost the following: 1. A weak women's division from hoarding, and minimal point application across the board to said fighters, thereby maintaining average fighters in a stagnant division, and preventing others from accessing said fighter to raise the quality and competition of the division. AND 2. Forcing all other members to receive fewer fighter for their smaller roster to accommodate an excessively high roster of average-tiered names and fighters that the league has determined to be essentially valueless on the open trade market. Bravo. You broke the site. 1. Yah, the FWs do have a problem with that... I 100% agree with you, but that's not entirely my fault when I'm not the only one with 4+ FWs in the league. I'm not preventing anyone from accessing fighters, it's just no one but Byron ever approaches me about potential trades. What I'd like to do is to keep my Gracie girls (Davis, D'Alelio, Nakamoto & Smith), plus Kedzie & Zingano... and even then, if the right offer came along, I might even move one of the latter two. I've had trade blocks up every off season and no one really comes to talk to me about a potential deal at all... ever. 2. No one's forcing anyone to do anything except that folks are now trying to force me to downsize my roster, that's actually now showing signs of being a good team... which on one hand is absolutely fine. I do need to move some fighters but because I am who I am on this site, for whatever reason, my fighters value is downgraded because of me, not based on their own merits within the league. Are they all or have they all been champions? No, but a lot of them have the potential to be if given the proper upgrades but basically no one wants them because I have them, is what it comes down to. So no. I've broken nothing.
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Ferocity
Black Belt (5th Degree)
Posts: 3,455
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Post by Ferocity on Dec 21, 2015 20:04:57 GMT -5
can I just say first that The Mighty Ducks did an amazing job in the first page of this discussion? Clear, reasoned opinion. very nice. Also, no it's not all somehow @phoenix 's fault, but that doesn't mean that a change won't affect him in what he perceives to be a negative way. @phoenix- you made decisions based on the info available at the time- you posted a lot and could support a large roster, but now, many people in the league are saying that the league has gotten too big and that very large rosters mean we don't see our fighters fight often enough. I liked the ratio idea myself, but I have a feeling it be a pain in the ass to do the math for- we might all make different decisions about rosters if we knew that we were getting 10 fights a season (obviously jsut an example) we would know how many people we should realistically have.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 21, 2015 20:09:14 GMT -5
can I just say first that The Mighty Ducks did an amazing job in the first page of this discussion? Clear, reasoned opinion. very nice. Yah, to a point I agree, but it unfortunately turned extremely quickly... cuz what unfortunately started as a question about fighter fight quantity, turned into the same thing it does every off season... "Attack Phoenix Time". Next off-season it'll be something else.
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Post by The West Coast Knockouts on Dec 21, 2015 21:23:34 GMT -5
Stfu. How was i bitching? I just said i agreed with ducks you goofball. If you agree with Ducks and think he was on point with his argument: Nah , i gotta agree with ducks here. He's on point with his argument. Then really, you're bitching just like he is, when you're almost as idle as Ducks is in making roster moves and making the efforts yourselves to acquire more depth, then you blame me for picking up for your own roster's shortfall... goofball. I'm not going to apologize for adding to my roster to help the league out when it was said that we needed fighters in certain weight classes. If you need depth or want to add a fighter or two, then do it... but don't sit there and tell me that I have to downsize my roster because you can't be bothered half the time to fill up your own roster's holes. EPIC FACEPALM
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 21, 2015 21:45:35 GMT -5
If you agree with Ducks and think he was on point with his argument: Then really, you're bitching just like he is, when you're almost as idle as Ducks is in making roster moves and making the efforts yourselves to acquire more depth, then you blame me for picking up for your own roster's shortfall... goofball. I'm not going to apologize for adding to my roster to help the league out when it was said that we needed fighters in certain weight classes. If you need depth or want to add a fighter or two, then do it... but don't sit there and tell me that I have to downsize my roster because you can't be bothered half the time to fill up your own roster's holes. EPIC FACEPALM Yah, it is an Epic Facepalm... but it ain't for me there my man. You've been sitting there with barely enough fighters to field a GP team for years now and now you're jumping on the bandwagon to fuck up my team now, just because... isn't that nice. Haven't exactly see you come to me with any trade offers either, yet you think my roster's too large and I should cut down when you've only recently started to grow your own team after how long? I've had most of my fighters for 13 seasons... you need to fill some holes on your team, come talk to me... I can help you out. That goes for you and anyone else, but I don't think it's fair that folks suddenly demand that I drop fighters that I've been spending this long investing in and expect me to take a huge loss on it. Step up or shut up.
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Post by The Mighty Ducks on Dec 21, 2015 22:22:40 GMT -5
oh jesus guys. stop.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 21, 2015 22:59:48 GMT -5
Oh screw you Ducks... You started this shit. I'm sick of it... every fucking off-season some jackass like you is having to pull this fucking shit with me... And now you're like "Oh, stop..." like it's something damaging to you when you were catalyst of the entire thing. So how about you fucking stop with YOUR bullshit for a change and shut the fuck up!
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Post by The Mighty Ducks on Dec 21, 2015 23:12:19 GMT -5
I stand by my suggestion. I just don't like how it moved away from what I was saying and became a flame war, which now you're directing at me. I just put my opinion out there, others agreed, others (including you) disagreed. I respect and appreciate you sharing your opinion, and that's it. Now stop. All that's happening is the real discussion is cluttered by the back and forth flaming.
My stop was not specifically directed at you. It was an open request about the arguments that aren't helping the discussion, they are only cluttering it.
So, again, please stop.
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Post by The West Coast Knockouts on Dec 21, 2015 23:36:30 GMT -5
Yah, it is an Epic Facepalm... but it ain't for me there my man. You've been sitting there with barely enough fighters to field a GP team for years now and now you're jumping on the bandwagon to fuck up my team now, just because... isn't that nice. Haven't exactly see you come to me with any trade offers either, yet you think my roster's too large and I should cut down when you've only recently started to grow your own team after how long? I've had most of my fighters for 13 seasons... you need to fill some holes on your team, come talk to me... I can help you out. That goes for you and anyone else, but I don't think it's fair that folks suddenly demand that I drop fighters that I've been spending this long investing in and expect me to take a huge loss on it. Step up or shut up. I've won the GP before. have you ?
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 22, 2015 0:08:46 GMT -5
Also, no it's not all somehow @phoenix 's fault, but that doesn't mean that a change won't affect him in what he perceives to be a negative way.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 22, 2015 0:21:39 GMT -5
Yah, it is an Epic Facepalm... but it ain't for me there my man. You've been sitting there with barely enough fighters to field a GP team for years now and now you're jumping on the bandwagon to fuck up my team now, just because... isn't that nice. Haven't exactly see you come to me with any trade offers either, yet you think my roster's too large and I should cut down when you've only recently started to grow your own team after how long? I've had most of my fighters for 13 seasons... you need to fill some holes on your team, come talk to me... I can help you out. That goes for you and anyone else, but I don't think it's fair that folks suddenly demand that I drop fighters that I've been spending this long investing in and expect me to take a huge loss on it. Step up or shut up. I've won the GP before. have you ? That's exactly part of my point though man. lol This is how I've built my team to a point where it is GP contend-able. You've done it a different way, and I've only voiced my "critiques" of how you've built when you and Ducks have essentially called mine into question. Otherwise, I would've kept it to myself cuz your team should be your business, and my team should be mine... but shit like this happens to me every fucking off season, how about you? Do you generally get left alone to your business in the off season? I'm imagining you do... I don't. I was looking forward to the fact that I would be able to have one fucking off season, or more, with no bullshit cuz the PPP system was gone, but no, something else pops right back up in it's place. This time it's my roster size all over again, but the same can be said about yours or Ducks' being as small as they are. Nearly every team in the league has about roughly 5 fighters more than you, is that not also limiting your team's potential with lack of variety and lack of depth? How did you do in the GP this season? When was the last time you won? It's virtually the same for me, just in reverse man. I have depth and good fighters, and still don't win the GP or titles right now... but my fighters are subject to the exact same criteria yours are when it comes to fight booking. If you win, you fight a lot... if you lose, you don't. I'm not taking anybody's spot or anyone's fights because of my roster size. If your fighters are winning and fighting better than mine, then yours should be fighting more... if it's the opposite, then mine should be. It really shouldn't matter how many fighters I have or how little you have if booking's being done properly, which it has been. And the thing is, even with my enlarged roster, I still have 1-2 cards every season that none of my fighters appear on, just like everyone else.
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