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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 14, 2014 9:51:57 GMT -5
Hey folks. With the recent suggestions about scout scouting reports/fighter respecs with the idea in mind of being able to retool capped fighters, so I'd like to put forth an idea of a Soft Cap system; something I was going to suggest this off season as a staff member, but I feel it's still a pertinent point of discussion. Now, it's no secret that I've thought that the current fighter caps that are in place are right now too low; it was a source of much debate just prior to it being implemented between myself and The Sandmen. I do agree that a cap of some sort does need to be in place to stagnate the growth of fighters, what the current hard cap actually does is take the control of the fighter away from the GMs once they're capped. I've personally never though that was right. They're our fighters to do with what we want, not have the league basically say "Sorry, you can't get any better than what you are now." I mean even though, I don't like Rousey, I really did feel bad for Cannon when she was capped the first time cuz we could all see some glaring mistakes and the poor guy couldn't do anything about it. In any event, I'll use the Women's division as the example for the Soft Cap System since I I don't remember what the caps are exactly for the other weightclasses. The current hard cap for the women is 77 overall (77% to The Rocketmen  ), which I feel is still kind of low; I'd prefer to see it at a 79-80 but I'll use the 77 model for simplicity. Basically what I'm proposing is that we be allowed to pay a fee to upgrade our "capped" fighters thus creating a soft cap as oppose to the current hard cap. There would be different levels to the cap as these fighter go up in overall though. Level 1 Cap: 77-81 - 1 point/1 point assignment (Meaning: You'd have to have 2 points to allocate 1 point into this fighter; 1 point to temporarily unlock the cap and 1 point to assign to an attribute.)
Level 2 Cap: 81-84 - 2 points/ 1 point assignment (Meaning: You'd have to have 3 points to allocate 1 point into this fighter at this level; 2 points to temporarily unlock the cap and 1 point to assign to an attribute.)
Level 3 Cap: 84-87 - 3 points/ 1 point assignment (Meaning: You'd have to have 4 points to allocate 1 point into this fighter at this level; 3 points to temporarily unlock the cap and 1 point to assign to an attribute.)
Level 4 Cap: 87-90 - 4 points/ 1 point assignment (Meaning: You'd have to have 5 points to allocate 1 point into this fighter at this level; 4 points to temporarily unlock the cap and 1 point to assign to an attribute.)So on and so forth.... The overall spread could be different for each level, though I wouldn't spread it out more than 4 overall per level. Example: I have Sarah D'Alelio who's at Level 1 Cap (77-81 Overall). I have 4 points banked and I want to give her an upgrade for an upcoming fight. I decide I want to put 2 into her Punches. So I pay 2 points (1 point/upgrade point) to unlock the cap twice to allocate 2 points to her punching stat.This way it puts the control back in the respective GM's hands as to the growth of these fighters but also gives them the decision as to whether they feel it's worth paying the extra points to upgrade, especially as you get up into the upper levels where you're paying upscale of 3 points+ to allocate a single attribute point; basically if you wanna upgrade beyond your current soft cap level, then you've gotta pay extra for it. Feel free to lemme know what you think of this idea or if you need clarification on anything, don't hesitate to ask questions if you're confused about something.  |
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Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 14, 2014 10:00:04 GMT -5
Don't like it, but I'll explain why. I was under the impression we have a cap at roughly 77 overall (77% to The Rocketmen lol) on the basis that when we're in Season like 12, people will eventually catch up with their fighters and become more competitive. We just watched Anderson Silva and others be the most dominant fighters for like four straight seasons, now all of a sudden, by capping them, others are catching up, fights are becoming about technical abilities, and they are more exciting and more opportunities for others to win a belt. Seasons down the road, the cap will likely raise, allowing people to re-assign points to areas where they feel their fighters need the most upgrade to stay relevant/competitive. This soft-cap system of paying more points to be better just allows those that post a lot to get more points into their best fighters and make those fighters THAT MUCH MORE unbeatable, which is obviously the reason you play if you want to win all the time, but it's also what ruins it for others trying to build someone to contendership. I think the idea of doing re-specs is a lot better than this idea, as this idea just allows the Rouseys and Silvas to become invincible. If you have a problem with a fighter being capped, why not just focus on building another fighter? |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 14, 2014 10:31:52 GMT -5
It allows for tweaks to the capped fighters it but if you think about it, ask yourself this question: Would you pay 4 points to put 1 point into a fighter? I know I personally wouldn't, but this gives everyone the option to do so if you think it's worth it and indirectly provides a cap. With the respecs, taking out a point out of each attribute could potentially wreck a fighter, this option allows you to keep the work that you've already done to the fighter as an alternative. Thanks for the feedback though.  |
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Post by xx - The Underdog Regime on Feb 14, 2014 11:18:35 GMT -5
It still makes teams such as my team, with a plethora of project fighters, have a difficult time trying to make a good team when the ceiling is high. I would like to have a team within a season or two to become dominant and have somewhat low name fighters (Lashley, Daley, Gono, etc.) become champions or top contenders. With these "soft cap" levels, it's just that much harder for me, and it takes a lot of the fun away from me.
I do like the idea if I were here since Season 1, but only being here since the beginning of Season 8 or 9, it's a tough thing for me to say yes to.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 14, 2014 16:34:41 GMT -5
Why does it make it harder for you with no capped fighters @therelbk? Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is looks to me like you're missing here is that this make it difficult for the teams with the capped fighters to upgrade their capped fighters whereas, with the respec idea, you simply paying 1 point to to get 19 point to move around the fighter.
Doing it point by point with this soft cap method rather than pay a point to effectively receive 19 points to do with what you want, actually makes it less likely that someone's going to be able to crack whore their fighter; 19 points is allot of points, even if it is being pulled out of the fighter to be put back in different places.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 14, 2014 16:41:56 GMT -5
Why does it make it harder for you with no capped fighters @therelbk? Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is looks to me like you're missing with this system is that this make it more difficult for the teams with the capped fighters to upgrade their capped fighters whereas, with the respec idea, you're simply paying 1 point to get 19 point to move around the fighter.
Doing it point by point with this soft cap method rather than pay a point to effectively receive 19 points to do with what you want, actually makes it less likely that someone's going to be able to crack whore their fighter; 19 points is allot of points, even if it is being pulled out of the fighter to be put back in different places.
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Feb 14, 2014 17:15:33 GMT -5
It allows for tweaks to the capped fighters it but if you think about it, ask yourself this question: Would you pay 4 points to put 1 point into a fighter? I know I personally wouldn't, but this gives everyone the option to do so if you think it's worth it and indirectly provides a cap. With the respecs, taking out a point out of each attribute could potentially wreck a fighter, this option allows you to keep the work that you've already done to the fighter as an alternative. Thanks for the feedback though. as sandmen suggested you just put the one poin back into that spec, i like sandmen idea better and i think the cap is at 80% |
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Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 14, 2014 17:54:20 GMT -5
I like that I and Underdogs both gave a though out reason in detail as to why it doesn't work, and Kruze's first comment is "why don't you think it works?" Just read man.
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Feb 14, 2014 17:58:53 GMT -5
Rousey been capped longer than anyone and needs a respec also i was told by sandmen if there were no cap and she were to become champ and win a 10-0 defence title wins she would have to retire thats why the cap to make it a level playing ground for all
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 14, 2014 18:04:00 GMT -5
It allows for tweaks to the capped fighters it but if you think about it, ask yourself this question: Would you pay 4 points to put 1 point into a fighter? I know I personally wouldn't, but this gives everyone the option to do so if you think it's worth it and indirectly provides a cap. With the respecs, taking out a point out of each attribute could potentially wreck a fighter, this option allows you to keep the work that you've already done to the fighter as an alternative. Thanks for the feedback though. as sandmen suggested you just put the one poin back into that spec, i like sandmen idea better and i think the cap is at 80% Yah, you can put the point back into that same spec for sure, but the points that you don't put back into the specs that you've pulled from then loading into other ones, affects the overall differently as you get closer to 20 in any spec; meaning percentage the fighter's overall goes up at a slightly higher increments as you get closer to maxing a spec. This could also lead to you losing out on a point or possibly even two of the 19 that you just took out because of that when you've already paid a point to do the respec in the first place. This way that I'm proposing eliminates that and leaves the GM still in control of how their fighter grows, at a cost of course. And no, unfortunately it's 77% for the women. I pushed for 80% when we were discussing it and I was still staff, but Sandman didn't want them that high. So unless he's changed it himself since, the women's cap is at the 77% mark. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Feb 14, 2014 18:06:32 GMT -5
I'm going to let people keep talking this out, but I want to say letting ANYONE get to be a 90 in this system is a site-breaking error. To make a 90, you can max out 16 out of 19 stats, and be average in the other 3.
For those that remember how boring the very first ML sims were, with long, unproductive decisions, fighters at the higher end of the spectrum do the same thing, because they have no weaknesses. You put 2 fighters rated 90 or 100 vs. each other, you get nothing but boring, 5 round decisions. We are actually getting close to that at times - you've seen it when I say "these guys were both just too good to do any damage to each other".
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 14, 2014 18:10:57 GMT -5
I like that I and Underdogs both gave a though out reason in detail as to why it doesn't work, and Kruze's first comment is "why don't you think it works?" Just read man. No. I didn't say that at all. Again, stop trying to interpret what I'm saying to others, you suck at it. lol All I did was clarify something that he seemed to be confused about, that's it. |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 14, 2014 18:18:01 GMT -5
I'm going to let people keep talking this out, but I want to say letting ANYONE get to be a 90 in this system is a site-breaking error. To make a 90, you can max out 16 out of 19 stats, and be average in the other 3. For those that remember how boring the very first ML sims were, with long, unproductive decisions, fighters at the higher end of the spectrum do the same thing, because they have no weaknesses. You put 2 fighters rated 90 or 100 vs. each other, you get nothing but boring, 5 round decisions. We are actually getting close to that at times - you've seen it when I say "these guys were both just too good to do any damage to each other". Yep. I agree with this totally. Hence why, with my idea here, the point increments go up to point values that probably aren't really worth being able to put 1 point into the fighter. Once you get to level 2 or 3 with this system, you kinda have to weight the pros and cons of paying 3 and 4 points just to put one point into the fighter. The trade off is that the GM still has the control of the fighter and the fighter isn't sitting there completely stagnant and doing nothing, which is the real point of this idea. |
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Feb 14, 2014 18:23:25 GMT -5
I'm going to let people keep talking this out, but I want to say letting ANYONE get to be a 90 in this system is a site-breaking error. To make a 90, you can max out 16 out of 19 stats, and be average in the other 3. For those that remember how boring the very first ML sims were, with long, unproductive decisions, fighters at the higher end of the spectrum do the same thing, because they have no weaknesses. You put 2 fighters rated 90 or 100 vs. each other, you get nothing but boring, 5 round decisions. We are actually getting close to that at times - you've seen it when I say "these guys were both just too good to do any damage to each other". tho that was fixed by 10 round fights or is that jus tchampionship fights |
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Post by The Sandmen on Feb 14, 2014 18:29:04 GMT -5
K, now I will weigh in on the ACTUAL suggestion then.
I hate it. And here's why. The current cap levels the playing field. Most people can afford to upgrade 1 fighter to max over time. But when you start charging 4-5 points for an upgrade to get into the best of the best territory, people like Knockouts will never have an elite fighter again, and people like Cannon, Sandmen, and Phoenix will control the titles forever. Christ, some people haven't earned 5 points over 2 full seasons. The disparity would be huge!
I have more reasons, but that one alone is enough for me to vote a strong no on this one.
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), which I feel is still kind of low; I'd prefer to see it at a 79-80 but I'll use the 77 model for simplicity. Basically what I'm proposing is that we be allowed to pay a fee to upgrade our "capped" fighters thus creating a soft cap as oppose to the current hard cap. There would be different levels to the cap as these fighter go up in overall though.
