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Post by The Mighty Ducks on May 8, 2015 9:52:34 GMT -5
i thougt he only killed his son and wife and himself. you cant fault a guy for that. TL;DR - He only... *reads rest of sentence* WTF?!  |
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Post by The Rocketmen on May 8, 2015 10:27:23 GMT -5
Agreed
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Post by xx - The Underdog Regime on May 8, 2015 12:51:05 GMT -5
To clear up the Benoit story:
Benoit killed both Nancy and Daniel due to his brain, and not from any 'roid rage'. Chris Nowinski, former WWE wrestler-turned-head expert, did tests to Benoit's brain at the University of Virginia and found out that Benoit had the brain of an 85-year-old patient with advanced dementia and Alzheimer's. Benoit had a similar brain to some retired NFL players with multiple concussions. Therefore, the belief of what happened the night in June 2007 was that Benoit did not know who Nancy was, thought she was a burglar and killed her in what he thought was protecting his family. (They did find Xanax, hydrocondone and hydromorphine in Nancy when they did Toxicology results to all 3 members of the family, but they were at therapeutic levels, nothing toxic and harmful to her system, which is why I believe that it was his Alzheimer's acting up). When he figured out that he killed his own wife, he sedated his son, killed Daniel, and then did the deed to himself (They found Xanax in Daniel's body, which led to the belief that he was sedated so he could not feel the pain of whatever Benoit did).
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Post by The Sandmen on May 8, 2015 15:09:28 GMT -5
I did not know a lot of that. I stopped following the Benoit story many, many years ago.
The thing is, though, having Alzheimers and dementia does not lead to homicidal tendencies. Best case scenario, the guy still planned, calculated, and orchestrated prolicide.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on May 8, 2015 16:20:25 GMT -5
I did not know a lot of that. I stopped following the Benoit story many, many years ago. The thing is, though, having Alzheimers and dementia does not lead to homicidal tendencies. Best case scenario, the guy still planned, calculated, and orchestrated prolicide. Then you have no idea how mentally debilitating dementia can be... OR, because you "stopped following the Benoit story many, many years ago." don't know the facts... Either way, to proclaim your "best case scenario" is ignorant; to say the least. Can't say I'm surprised by your view though. |
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Post by The Mighty Ducks on May 8, 2015 18:52:55 GMT -5
lol kruze taking it to the retard level.
NEVER GO FULL RETARD!
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Post by The Sandmen on May 8, 2015 22:38:39 GMT -5
OR, because you "stopped following the Benoit story many, many years ago." don't know the facts... Ironic, since the one clear undisputed fact here is the one I said - he committed prolicide. Yay prolicidal wrestlers! Apparently just being someone famous gives you the Kruze-thumbs up to go all prolicidal! Then again, it's Kruze. Can't say I'm surprised. Also of interest, "bub", I probably have a lot more first-hand experience with both dementia and Alzheimer's, as I have had several family members very close to me suffer with Alzheimer's and/or severe dementia. None of them were homicidal maniacs who tried to kill their loved ones. But, you know, you liked Chris Benoit as a wrestler, so clearly you know more about brain disease than people who have been affected by it first hand... |
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Post by Lord Byron's Conquistadors on May 8, 2015 22:43:35 GMT -5
lol prolificide wtf. phx is right tho the family had it comin. benoit is blameless and is boss should be in order of canada and wwe hall of fame
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Post by The Rocketmen on May 9, 2015 0:04:43 GMT -5
I did not know a lot of that. I stopped following the Benoit story many, many years ago. The thing is, though, having Alzheimers and dementia does not lead to homicidal tendencies. Best case scenario, the guy still planned, calculated, and orchestrated prolicide. Then you have no idea how mentally debilitating dementia can be... OR, because you "stopped following the Benoit story many, many years ago." don't know the facts... Either way, to proclaim your "best case scenario" is ignorant; to say the least. Can't say I'm surprised by your view though. TL;DR - Dementia is like bad, and you don't pay enough attention. (like dementia attention?) You don't know things. I know things. I even know the things you say you know that you don't know that you don't know, you know? |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on May 9, 2015 13:41:21 GMT -5
OR, because you "stopped following the Benoit story many, many years ago." don't know the facts... Ironic, since the one clear undisputed fact here is the one I said - he committed prolicide. Yay prolicidal wrestlers! Apparently just being someone famous gives you the Kruze-thumbs up to go all prolicidal! Then again, it's Kruze. Can't say I'm surprised. Also of interest, "bub", I probably have a lot more first-hand experience with both dementia and Alzheimer's, as I have had several family members very close to me suffer with Alzheimer's and/or severe dementia. None of them were homicidal maniacs who tried to kill their loved ones. But, you know, you liked Chris Benoit as a wrestler, so clearly you know more about brain disease than people who have been affected by it first hand... There you go putting words in my mouth again that I didn't say. I didn't say "thumbs-up" to anything. Just because you pull that out of thin air and say I did, doesn't make it fact. Whereas the only thing that you said that has been correct was that he committed prolicide. So what if, in your experience, dementia hasn't made your family members think killing someone is rational? That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It's more the fact that Benoit was suffering from severe brain damage from having so many concussions and never getting treated for most of them. Again, I also never said that because I like Benoit as a wrestler I knew more about brain disease... I just happen to know more about this particular case because I followed it; you didn't, as you've previously stated. I didn't call you stupid nor did I say you didn't know anything at all about brain disease. What I said was, and I clarified by saying OR "because you "stopped following the Benoit story many, many years ago." don't know the facts..." Which is more than accurate considering you didn't know any of the facts really, other than he killed his family, until we started discussing it here. So sorry that I know more about this particular case than you do...  |
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Post by The Sandmen on May 9, 2015 17:04:39 GMT -5
TL;DR
But I get your gist. You liked the guy as a wrestler, so it's okay he killed his family. Cool story bro. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Especially since the killing of his son was calculated, not some brain-damage outburst.
But, you know....you liked him as a wrestler, so it's all good.
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Ferocity
Black Belt (5th Degree)
Posts: 3,455
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Post by Ferocity on May 10, 2015 11:25:10 GMT -5
So I know a lot about dementia and acquired brain injury (which it seems way more likely he had, in addition to dementia), and here's the thing- ABI (Acquired brain injury) can cause people to have little or no control over their emotions, including rage, and so can dementia. Dementia can cause confusion regarding identities. So maybe, MAYBE he killed his wife by 'mistake'. Then an ABI could cause poor judgement and problem solving and lead to the killing of his son. But here's the thing, these things don't happen in a vaccuum. It would not have been the first time confused identities happened. It would not have been the first time he showed inappropriate or poor judgement and problem solving. He needed to get help. That was his responsibility- and obviously he failed. It's tragic and it's sad, and it's a reminder that we don't live alone as individuals, but as parts of a greater whole and that when we make decisions about whether or not we get help for our problems can end up having a huge affect on everyone we know/love.
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Post by The Rocketmen on May 10, 2015 12:47:38 GMT -5
Didn't really think of it that way, Ferocity. I'm a person who believes that despite mental illness of any varying degree, people need to be held accountable for their actions (that statement alone should probably incite an entire debate). But there are varying degrees of what that punishment/consequence should be.
For instance, a few years ago a woman was suffering from some sort of psychosis in which she believed her (I believe 4 or 5) children were messengers from Satan, and drowned them one by one in the tub. She then placed them on the bed all snuggled up, and believed she rescued them. She then called the police and told them what she did and is now spending the rest of her life in a visitable asylum, and her husband makes himself think that it wasn't really her that did it, but her illness that did it.
In the case of Benoit, there's is a point of no return (possibly after the death of his wife), but he committed to completing his task and then killing himself. The fact that he killed himself is the remorse aspect, and is why I have a difficult time making him blame-less in those circumstances. If he knew enough that it was wrong, he had to have had his wits about him to understand the foresight of what sort of punishment would come following the murder of his wife, and then went all the way as to save his son from whatever future harm he thought his killing his wife might put on him (psychologically, emotionally damaging or otherwise), and then went through with a murder suicide.
All in all, it's a very fucked up circumstance, and very sad.
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Ferocity
Black Belt (5th Degree)
Posts: 3,455
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Post by Ferocity on May 10, 2015 19:50:13 GMT -5
You're not wrong. He definitely had responsibilities in the situation-- and brain injury isn't an excuse- but when you've known the brain injured (as I have) you do begin to understand how all encompassing it can be- how it can take this amazing person and just make so many basic things we take for granted fucked up. When your brain changes, who you are, what you're capable of, all of that changes because your brain doesn't connect 1-2-3 anymore, it connects 1-2-5 with as much conviction as it would have connected the first example, and if your brain tells you something is reality, then it is. We can learn that everybody else thinks differently, and learn to cope accordingly, but in a unexpected situation the instincts can still be all wrong.
No excuses, he killed people he was supposed to love and protect and it's unforgivable. But I think we do well to at least understand HOW this type of stuff happens.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on May 11, 2015 18:53:52 GMT -5
Both of you are right on all counts. I'd love to believe that the guy I met, shook hands with, and, yes, embraced me, (I mentioned I was from Edmonton too, and pulled me in to hug me, and said "It's great to meet you brother."). So, it's difficult to think of someone doing what he did, years later... cuz we get vibes from folks... and I, 100% did not, get that vibe from him at all after sharing his personal space with him.
I have family members I don't let touch man... I 100% percent, did not get that feeling from Chris Benoit. Things could have changed in the 2-3 years afterwards, but the guy I met... was genuine. That guy, and the wrestler he was, is who I choose to remember.
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Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!
Jan 21, 2021 13:09:55 GMT -5
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Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!
Jan 21, 2021 13:09:55 GMT -5
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