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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 17, 2015 18:33:36 GMT -5
I just simply don't agree with you on any particular point above. And 83% of the people posting in this thread simply don't agree that there's a problem. Convince us. I have been presenting my facts, and answering all questions posed to me and you're just doing your damnedest to find any hole in them or just making your own hole that doesn't exist. lol It's what you do, unfortunately... and the thing is that it shouldn't take convincing, it should.be common sense to listen to ideas before just shooting holes in it. Atleast Ferocity's been asking questions for clarity and not making attacks, accusations or snide comments, and trying to help make this a discussion, not just crucify Kruze hour cuz he had a suggestion. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 17, 2015 18:49:47 GMT -5
There is no suggestion in this thread. This thread is about pin-pointing what, if anything, the problem is. It seems to extend no farther than "Kruze finishes last and wants to maintain his current team but get better". A reasonable problem, but that is a team problem, not a league problem. If that assessment is incorrect, let us know how it is a league problem and not a team problem. We are listening.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 18, 2015 7:55:51 GMT -5
There is no suggestion in this thread. This thread is about pin-pointing what, if anything, the problem is. It seems to extend no farther than "Kruze finishes last and wants to maintain his current team but get better". A reasonable problem, but that is a team problem, not a league problem. If that assessment is incorrect, let us know how it is a league problem and not a team problem. We are listening. There you go making it about me again. That was never the point, the intent or the issue. If you were listening, as you claim, then you wouldn't be bringing it up as a "Kruze problem" every chance you get to deflect away from it being a league issue, which it is. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 18, 2015 12:55:11 GMT -5
I keep asking you to explain to us why it is a league issue. You refuse. We are still listening.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 18, 2015 14:28:44 GMT -5
I keep asking you to explain to us why it is a league issue. You refuse. We are still listening. I haven't refused anything. You've asked numerous times that I stop repeating myself and I've explained several times now why it's a league issue, but again you refuse to listen to anything and continue to deflect and avoid. There's a reason we end up going in circles on these things, and it's not because I go off topic. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 18, 2015 14:32:28 GMT -5
K, then just finish this sentence:
This is a league issue, not a team issue, because ________________
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 18, 2015 14:45:13 GMT -5
K, then just finish this sentence: This is a league issue, not a team issue, because ________________ I'm not the only team in this league that finishes in the bottom 2. Just like no one can say that you always finish 1st every season, so too can no one say I always finish last every season either. It's not about me, it's about anyone that finishes in the bottom 2. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 18, 2015 15:31:40 GMT -5
I understand that part, but where's the problem? At first it was "the same teams always finish last". Then Ferocity pointed out that in the past 4 seasons, 8 different teams have finished in the bottom 3. So we don't have the same teams finishing last all the time. Then we look at "teams at the bottom have no way of getting better". But Byron has a champion and was in the GP last year just using points, GAP has gotten 3-4 game-changers from auctions and upgraded his own fighters with points, Phoenix Fight Club is upgrading his team and got Tito Ortiz for peanuts this off-season, Mighty Ducks now has a champion and just landed himself a legit contender at HW. I am seeing nothing but the lower teams getting better, so I don't agree we have a problem with the weak teams being unable to get better. And this is with the system we have now. I'm unsure where the welfare of the bottom 2 teams (especially this season) is in any jeopardy. At a certain point, they are just the ones who had 1 or 2 too many losses and just missed the GP. This is particularly true of the 2nd last team, who has often missed the GP by a single fight or so. |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 18, 2015 16:49:31 GMT -5
Well, Ferocity's 8 teams is a bit muddled in that she didn't name those teams. I'd imagine that it's more like 4-6 if you take teams like yours that are normally in the top 2 and teams that are no longer here. That's still not allot of diversity. Yes, Byron has a champion... NOW... but look how long it's taken for him to do it. Even if you take into account his net issues for nearly all of that time, it shouldn't have taken him 14 seasons to do that, let alone build a competitive fighter. It shouldn't have taken this long for any of us. GAP still a helluva time winning a title, as do I, and save for Bas, so.does the Conquistadors. I'm not saying it should be easy, but at the rate others, like yourself and Rocketmen, end up with champions all the time; whether built or perpetual, doesn't matter. I've said it before, with the competent MMA minds we have on the site, it shouldn't just be easy for some and difficult for others when it should be the same difficulty level for all, and, for whatever reason, it's very much not. This very well could be the season that balances it out, but I'm still seeing the pattern I suggested there was. The only difference now is going to be that you, The Sandmen, may not finish 1st again for a while, due to your recent roster moves, but I really won't be convinced the current system is the right one until there is more consistency in terms of teams actually sustaining a level they attain from one season to the next instead of the spikes we see then they go back to the way things were. I realize that someone has to finish 1st and finish last, but it shouldn't be the same nearly every seasonif teams are really closing the gap, as you're claiming. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 18, 2015 17:29:01 GMT -5
Well, Ferocity's 8 teams is a bit muddled in that she didn't name those teams. I'd imagine that it's more like 4-6 if you take teams like yours that are normally in the top 2 and teams that are no longer here. That's still not allot of diversity. LOL, 1) You can't just dismiss former teams as if they didn't exist. If you want to do that, then you were a Grand Prix team in Seasons 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12. lol, WTF? 2)But even if we pretend you CAN do that (seriously, wtf? lol), you're at 6 different current teams being in the bottom 3 over the past 5 seasons. 6 is more than half the league. Half the league being in the bottom 27% in standings is diversity. Yes, Byron has a champion... NOW... but look how long it's taken for him to do it. He worked on Bas for about 2 seasons, not 14. He has worked on other fighters and then traded them to new teams. And he has no complaints that I have heard about the process. GAP still a helluva time winning a title, GAP wanted a belt, so I traded him Zoila, a very-well upgraded ranked fighter. He then put about 17 points into Liz Carmouche.... If GAP wanted a champion, he could have had one several times by now. He has worked on developing his entire team, top to bottom, by upgrading Chiesa and McGee. He has made his project fighters legit, and is a better overall team for it. That is his choice, and one he and I have discussed at length privately. You do not need to speak for him. I've said it before, with the competent MMA minds we have on the site, it shouldn't just be easy for some and difficult for others when it should be the same difficulty level for all, and, for whatever reason, it's very much not. Donno what to tell you on that one. I have tried to give you upgrade advice endlessly and you yell at me. Others (Bulldozers) has listened, and he had a beast-team as a result. If it's the same people upgrading people to champions time and time again, and almost the entire league except yourself has now built at least 1 decent champion, I donno what to tell you... but I really won't be convinced the current system is the right one until there is more consistency in terms of teams actually sustaining a level they attain from one season to the next Look at what you have said there. You want sustainability. But you want different teams finishing in the top and bottom places. Meaning...you want to consistently have a GP spot, but you do not want you (or someone else) consistently missing the GP. You cannot have consistency AND have diversity. Diversity means teams are getting better/worse, the system is dynamic and there is change. That is what we have. You have the consistency you want with me at the top, and you hate it and keep pointing to it as a reason the system is broken. You cannot have your consistency and diversity cakes and eat them both too. Someone has to finish in playoff spots, and someone has to finish outside of them. Every season, that will be the case. Someone will win, someone will lose. |
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Post by Lord Byron's Conquistadors on Apr 18, 2015 18:00:36 GMT -5
xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club man i respect your difference of opinion and your stance an all that but please dont use my team as an example now or anymore. my team is mine an i take full responsibility for its ups and downs and don want any league help. this season is all Lord byron bitches and i did it all on my own while doin charity trades in the past at the same time. but my time is now #thetimeisnow
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Post by The Mighty Ducks on Apr 18, 2015 22:59:46 GMT -5
im so bored of this "i have a problem" shit. if 99% of the league doesn't fucking care, then deal with it or get the fuck out.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 19, 2015 14:39:30 GMT -5
xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club man i respect your difference of opinion and your stance an all that but please dont use my team as an example now or anymore. my team is mine an i take full responsibility for its ups and downs and don want any league help. this season is all Lord byron bitches and i did it all on my own while doin charity trades in the past at the same time. but my time is now #thetimeisnow With all due respect, I wasn't the only one using your team as an example, nor was I the first. I appreciate you're not wanting to be mentioned, but as a team in this league and as one of the teams that has complained as much as I have over other issues in terms of fairness such as going after my PPP numbers, but also having been a recipient of said charity, lower PPP, etc., you're not excluded from that mix of teams. I'm sorry Conquistadors, you're just not. |
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Ferocity
Black Belt (5th Degree)
Posts: 3,455
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Post by Ferocity on Apr 19, 2015 15:48:47 GMT -5
My argument was clear and accurate.
I looked at the top 3 top and bottom teams, to see how many of us had been in either in the last 5 seasons.
There were 10 DIFFERENT teams in the top 3, in the last 5 seasons.
There were 10 DIFFERENT teams in the bottom 3, in the last 5 seasons.
TOP TEAMS (DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER) FROM SEASON 9-13
Season 13:
1. The Sandman
2. Lord Byron
3. Rocketmen
Season 12:
4. Broad Street Bullies
5. The Underdog Regime
Season 11:
6. West Coast Knockouts
Season 10:
7. Camp Cannon
8. Team Gap
Season 9:
9. Ferocity
10. Team 3lite
LAST PLACE TEAMS (DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER) FROM SEASON 9-13:
Season 13:
1. Ferocity
2. Camp Cannon
3. Phoenix Fight Club
Seson 12:
4. Team GrappleMuch?
5. Team GAP
6. Lord Byron’s Conquistadors
Season 11:
7. Rebel Storm
8. The Soviet Union
Season 10:
9. West Coast Knockouts
10. The Underdog Regime
Season 9:
No one new.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 19, 2015 21:09:39 GMT -5
I get that's somehow your point Ferocity, and that's fine, but when you take a look at the number of times teams have been in the top 2-3, the bottom 2-3, and the frequency of it is what I was talking about. If this diversity and parity in the league existed, we wouldn't see teams like Sandmen at 81% of the time, most often in 1st or Rocketmen, who classically trades off all his fighters, at 63% time. The frequency would be more around the 40-60% mark for everyone, not just a select few. |
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Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!