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Post by The Rocketmen on Dec 15, 2015 9:04:24 GMT -5
I still like it. If the women part is a problem, just don't apply it to them at all until more time has allowed that division to catch up, because let's face it, women's MMA, from any perspective, is still quite young in its development.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 13:51:38 GMT -5
Gee, I wonder why fighters would leave to go to Invicta?! lol Ya don't see many leaving UFC for Invicta though, do ya. Not unless they got fired. Moral: Invicta makes no sense, thus I think we're good to move forward with this suggestion as it sits starting post-Grand Prix.  Anyone have additional questions, comments, concerns? No, we're not good, nor are we moving on from this... cuz actually Invicta & UFC have a talent sharing agreement, so saying Invicta makes no sense is just being stubborn and boneheaded on your part. Invicta is the only women's league out there now, and the only ones that can represent the Flyweights & Atomweights of the world currently. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 14:08:40 GMT -5
And of course by talent sharing we mean UFC takes the good ones, and when a fighter is cut from the UFC they go back to Invicta. Moral: Invicta is the AHL, and winning the Calder Cup does not make you an NHL-worthy team, let alone an NHL Hall of Famer.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 15:12:29 GMT -5
And of course by talent sharing we mean UFC takes the good ones, and when a fighter is cut from the UFC they go back to Invicta. Moral: Invicta is the AHL, and winning the Calder Cup does not make you an NHL-worthy team, let alone an NHL Hall of Famer. Nope... But with no flyweight or atomweight divisions in UFC, that defaults back to Invicta to for the tops of those weight classes, particularly the flyweights. But I'm also with Rocketmen on this one too The Sandmen, until UFC adds their flyweight division or you're atleast going to concede the Invicta flyweights who will be in that division when it is created, I don't see any reason to change the women's current format unless you're going to change their cap across the board. It's not fair to a majority of the rest of the league to make it so that select fighters from 3-4 teams, yours included, get a bonus on fighters that are already dominant here. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 15:15:53 GMT -5
Does that mean you also want to include Super Heavyweight belts from other inferior organizations for the men as well? Or the male atomweight belts as well?
Just give it up, dude, it makes no sense to include Invicta at this time. They are too young, their champions are too unproven, and their talent is too shallow. That may change, but for now, unfortunately, that is the case. Christ, we've been around longer than INvicta for damn sakes.
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Dec 15, 2015 15:19:03 GMT -5
And of course by talent sharing we mean UFC takes the good ones, and when a fighter is cut from the UFC they go back to Invicta. Moral: Invicta is the AHL, and winning the Calder Cup does not make you an NHL-worthy team, let alone an NHL Hall of Famer. look at robbie lawler he was good then got shitty fought in no name organzations went rto strekforce well getting a second wind to be better and is now the ufc champ.. same thing with anthony rumble johnson.. |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 15:20:55 GMT -5
Does that mean you also want to include Super Heavyweight belts from other inferior organizations for the men as well? Or the male atomweight belts as well? Just give it up, dude, it makes no sense to include Invicta at this time. They are too young, their champions are too unproven, and their talent is too shallow. That may change, but for now, unfortunately, that is the case. Christ, we've been around longer than INvicta for damn sakes. We're not talking about the men here, quit trying to change the subject. It makes no sense to adjust the women's format at all right now if it's not being done across the board and isn't fair for the entire league... Read above. |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 15:32:20 GMT -5
How about this The Sandmen, if you really want to do it your way: For women, if someone has won a UFC or Strikeforce championship belt, their cap increases to 80 and the rest of the women increase to a cap 79. I understand you wanting to have a bit of separation, but, as I said, it's not fair to a majority of the rest of the teams that don't have these champions that most are already dominant in ManMMA. You're stacking the deck again. Your initial proposal is not fair to everyone. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 15:45:21 GMT -5
This isn't about being "fair for the entire league". It's about making the FIGHTERS more representative of their real-life potentials. That's it.
As for the women going up across the board, we already covered that. You yourself said we are not seeing the balance we should in the division as a whole, so I am not going to increase the cap any further then it is with the champion suggestion.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 15:54:11 GMT -5
This isn't about being "fair for the entire league". It's about making the FIGHTERS more representative of their real-life potentials. That's it. As for the women going up across the board, we already covered that. You yourself said we are not seeing the balance we should in the division as a whole, so I am not going to increase the cap any further then it is with the champion suggestion. Most of them already are representative of their real life potentials. Take a look... Cris Cyborg (Knockouts) - Former 3x Dominant Champion Sarah Kaufman (Ferocity) - Current Champion & 3x Champion Marloes Coenen (Ducks) - Former Champion Ronda Rousey (Cannon) - Former Champion Holly Holm (Cannon) - Former Champion & Current #1 Contender Miesha Tate (Sandmen) - Capped Joanna Jędrzejczyk (Bullies) - Former Dominant Champion Carla Esparza (Conquistadors) - Likely the only one that needs the most help What pressing need is there to do this when only two of those listed have never been champion or dominant already in our league? I really don't see a need for it unless you're going to raise the regular women's cap too. It just doesn't make any sense at all when your reasoning for wanting to do this is already happening for the most part. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 16:01:08 GMT -5
None of that has anything to do with upping their potential cap, dude. Upping the cap won't "help" unless the work is put in. It just gives teams more options, as Underdogs said, it gives people added impetus to develop real fighters rather then lame project fighters, and it gives real life champions the chance to live up to their potential.
Plus, you keep arguing about raising these women by 1 overall, yet in your initial suggestion you suggested raising them not 1 overall like I have, but 2 (from 79 to 81). If they don;t need any help at all, why even suggest they get 2 upgrades? It really just makes it look like you realized your Invicta logic made no sense so now you are back-pedalling on the whole thing to try to take away any upgrades that do not directly improve your team. Kinda lame thing to try to bring the fighters of other teams down just because yours don;t get a boost, man.
This suggestion is about the whole league.
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Post by The Mighty Ducks on Dec 15, 2015 16:07:03 GMT -5
im down for this suggestion, lets do it!
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 16:07:49 GMT -5
None of that has anything to do with upping their potential cap, dude. Upping the cap won't "help" unless the work is put in. It just gives teams more options, as Underdogs said, it gives people added impetus to develop real fighters rather then lame project fighters, and it gives real life champions the chance to live up to their potential. Plus, you keep arguing about raising these women by 1 overall, yet in your initial suggestion you suggested raising them not 1 overall like I have, but 2 (from 79 to 81). If they don;t need any help at all, why even suggest they get 2 upgrades? It really just makes it look like you realized your Invicta logic made no sense so now you are back-pedalling on the whole thing to try to take away any upgrades that do not directly improve your team. Kinda lame thing to try to bring the fighters of other teams down just because yours don;t get a boost, man. This suggestion is about the whole league. This isn't about the league because, by your own reasoning that "Women's MMA is so young", nearly everyone's women's fighters are "project fighters" in the entire league... which makes it even less about the league if you're going to allow those select few fighters listed above's cap to be raised and the rest of the league's women are all "project fighters". You really have no basis to want to do this other than that you don't want to have to deduct points to tweak Tate like so many of the rest of us have had to do with our capped fighters. And my most recent suggestion, as a compromise, was this: How about this The Sandmen, if you really want to do it your way: For women, if someone has won a UFC or Strikeforce championship belt, their cap increases to 80 and the rest of the women increase to a cap 79. I understand you wanting to have a bit of separation, but, as I said, it's not fair to a majority of the rest of the teams that don't have these champions that most are already dominant in ManMMA. You're stacking the deck again. Your initial proposal is not fair to everyone. So quit trying to twist things around for yourself... I know you really can't help yourself, but atleast try. What you're suggesting isn't of any benefit to anyone but those select few fighters when an overwhelming majority of the leagues women aren't in that category nor are they as dominant as those select few are already either. What I'm suggesting is do something across the board for ALL the women in the league while still giving your lame and unneeded advantage to the fighters that are already dominant champions, or leave it as it is until there's a better solution. Cuz what you're suggesting isn't fair to a majority of the women in the league already... it's just not. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 16:26:26 GMT -5
Luckily, the majority of the league is in favour of the suggestion as it was posted, so we're good to go on this for next season.  Thanks guys. |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 16:32:05 GMT -5
Luckily, the majority of the league is in favour of the suggestion as it was posted, so we're good to go on this for next season. Thanks guys. It's absolutely astounding how you make folks think you're doing them a favor when you're really fucking them over and only really giving yourself, and couple others, an advantage. Fucking bullshit. The men's idea is fine because there's a wider talent base to go from. The women's idea needs to be scrapped because you're unwilling to expand their talent base by one weight class from another organization that's going to be in the UFC anyways, so that it works or give all the women a nudge so that it isn't just the already dominant and upgraded fighters that are receiving an advantage and the rest of the league is left to twist in the wind. |
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Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!