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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 16:37:18 GMT -5
I'd be interested in seeing the list of Invicta champions you think are worthy of a higher cap. I encountered none and am very curious about who or why you would fight it so much. Who do you see being overlooked?
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 16:55:38 GMT -5
I'd be interested in seeing the list of Invicta champions you think are worthy of a higher cap. I encountered none and am very curious about who or why you would fight it so much. Who do you see being overlooked? If we're just talking just Flyweights & Atomweights since UFC has bantam & staw weights: Barb Honchak Jessica Penne Michelle Waterson Herica Tiburcio Ayaka Hamasaki Hell, I'd even concede a few mini legends like Carano & Kedzie, etc., as much as Carano doesn't need it, but still... lol It's just that the talent base you're trying to draw from is miniscule by comparison to the men, not to mention that those champions you're proposing are already dominant forces in our league, save for Tate & Esparza, and Tate just needs tweaks. |
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Post by The Mighty Ducks on Dec 15, 2015 17:06:59 GMT -5
stop.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 17:19:06 GMT -5
This isn't a telegram... lol He asked a question; I answered. So fuck off Leahy.  |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 17:30:44 GMT -5
I'm still unconvinced there's talent there worth jacking. Particularly in light of something like DEEP, which has been around much longer. Herica Tiburcio is so significant to WMMA that she isn't even here - and was not selected when people could have taken any woman ever for free in the previous draft.
These lighter women's weight classes have no real historical base, not like BW, FW and now even SW, so including them with the rest is still absurd. Especially, as I said, over DEEP, where there is at least some historical perspective there.
There just remains no consensus on any of those women or weight classes.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 17:48:00 GMT -5
I'm still unconvinced there's talent there worth jacking. Particularly in light of something like DEEP, which has been around much longer. Herica Tiburcio is so significant to WMMA that she isn't even here - and was not selected when people could have taken any woman ever for free in the previous draft. These lighter women's weight classes have no real historical base, not like BW, FW and now even SW, so including them with the rest is still absurd. Especially, as I said, over DEEP, where there is at least some historical perspective there. There just remains no consensus on any of those women or weight classes. How can there be any consensus when you're the only one making that determination? You'll say anything to get your way and what you want, whether it works or not. Something else needs to be worked out with the women because it's not fair to the rest of the league or we should leave it as it is for now since there's no purpose to making the adjustment when the fighters affected are, by enlarge, fighting to they're potential. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 17:52:50 GMT -5
You keep talking like I have to be shady to convince people of stuff in order to do it. 1) I don't have to do that at all, and 2) even without that, there was enough support for this suggestion to go through with it. It makes sense, and it's a bonus cap level for those that earned it. We kinda established the shit out of the fact that Invicta is a second-tier farm system for the UFC, so we only have Strikeforce and UFC to go on.
Pride and UFC for men, Strikeforce and UFC for women. 2 for each. Clean, simple, fair. It works. I get that you like Invicta, that's awesome, I do too, but fact remains it's still second-fiddle to, well, EVERYTHING ELSE right now. If UFC never introduced a women's division, then we'd have something...but we don't. Fighters are moving weight classes to get into the UFC. The UFC is not making weight classes to accommodate the Barb Honchaks, Herica Tiburcios, and Ayaka Hamasakis of the world.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 18:00:29 GMT -5
You keep talking like I have to be shady to convince people of stuff in order to do it. 1) I don't have to do that at all, and 2) even without that, there was enough support for this suggestion to go through with it. It makes sense, and it's a bonus cap level for those that earned it. We kinda established the shit out of the fact that Invicta is a second-tier farm system for the UFC, so we only have Strikeforce and UFC to go on. Pride and UFC for men, Strikeforce and UFC for women. 2 for each. Clean, simple, fair. It works. I get that you like Invicta, that's awesome, I do too, but fact remains it's still second-fiddle to, well, EVERYTHING ELSE right now. If UFC never introduced a women's division, then we'd have something...but we don't. Fighters are moving weight classes to get into the UFC. The UFC is not making weight classes to accommodate the Barb Honchaks, Herica Tiburcios, and Ayaka Hamasakis of the world. You've established nothing about Invicta being a second tier organization, except expressing your own opinion. It doesn't work for the women, because your own reasoning for this move, of the fighters affected not fighting to their potential, has been disproved. The only two that aren't are Tate & Esparza... and Esparza's not even close to cap yet and has tons of room to grow which leaves Tate, who's capped. So what other reasoning is there to do this other than you wanting to circumvent having to deduct points from Tate? Not a helluva lot. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 18:13:59 GMT -5
Their current need or performance is irrelevant. You are arguing cookies when the conversation is MMA. It's weird, even for you.
And you, AGAIN, are more focussed on my team then I am. Tate has nothing to do with this, as the suggestion is a league decision. Tate had a belt, cool, she is worthy of more upgrade potential. I guess I'm sorry D'Alelio has never had that kind of success...? Then you'd be on board...?
But forcing Invicta, a company younger than ManMMA onto the league, is absurd. Even you know it at this point.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 18:16:31 GMT -5
Their current need or performance is irrelevant. You are arguing cookies when the conversation is MMA. It's weird, even for you. If it's so irrelevant then why was it your own reasoning for wanting to move forward with this and pushing so hard for something that's not needed right now in the slightest? |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 18:20:35 GMT -5
I've not mentioned once anything about current fighters under-performing as a reason to bring in the cap-boosts. There was a hole in the men's cap (at 82), and since I suggested the male champions get a boost, I figured there was no reason for ESTABLISHED, LEGIT female champions to get one too. No one in Invicta is really established, since they tend to play musical belts down there, or get drafted into the big leagues where they fight for the UFC.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 18:28:00 GMT -5
I've not mentioned once anything about current fighters under-performing as a reason to bring in the cap-boosts. There was a hole in the men's cap (at 82), and since I suggested the male champions get a boost, I figured there was no reason for ESTABLISHED, LEGIT female champions to get one too. No one in Invicta is really established, since they tend to play musical belts down there, or get drafted into the big leagues where they fight for the UFC. Oh, but you have said that sir... This isn't about being "fair for the entire league". It's about making the FIGHTERS more representative of their real-life potentials. That's it. The majority of fighters affected by this in the women's divisions are already representative of their real life potentials. The reality is that, since Esparza's not even close to cap, the only one that isn't already is Tate. So this move does nothing for anyone else except you. Period. The men is a completely different thing because, again by your own reasoning, WMMA is "too young" and doesn't have the talent pool to support this move to make it worth doing at this time, except for you. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 18:31:00 GMT -5
Keep digging. Maybe one day you'll strike gold.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 15, 2015 18:35:27 GMT -5
Keep digging. Maybe one day you'll strike gold. Don't need to strike gold... I'm telling the truth. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 15, 2015 18:40:15 GMT -5
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Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!