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Post by The Sandmen on Feb 21, 2018 11:19:27 GMT -5
So, guys....
Up to this point I have accepted people's new GP lists based on Zenith. I did not expect Anderson to beat (nor even fight) Cain, so he was my OW. Now I have plans for Anderson (AS CHAMPION) next season, and I don't really want to jeopardize that by having him in the GP, and lose his belt before we get to do our next-season fun.
Anyone object to pulling Anderson and replacing him with Big Nog?
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Feb 21, 2018 11:29:34 GMT -5
i dont as the grand prix hasnt started bt i might challenge anderson with lyoto next season!
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Feb 21, 2018 11:30:19 GMT -5
but not using anderson might cost you the grand prix
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Post by The Sandmen on Feb 21, 2018 11:33:53 GMT -5
but not using anderson might cost you the grand prix I KNOW, haha. I went back and forth on that, but in the end, I think I have something really neat planned for him (and ManMMA) next season that is actually worth giving up the GP for. It was not an easy decision, which is why it took me this long to actually make the call.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 21, 2018 11:40:14 GMT -5
So, guys.... Up to this point I have accepted people's new GP lists based on Zenith. I did not expect Anderson to beat (nor even fight) Cain, so he was my OW. Now I have plans for Anderson (AS CHAMPION) next season, and I don't really want to jeopardize that by having him in the GP, and lose his belt before we get to do our next-season fun. Anyone object to pulling Anderson and replacing him with Big Nog? Well, I'd rather you didn't... Only because you set up the rules for this yourself, now you're wanting to go back on them after the fact. You wouldn't let anyone else change their GP list after the card was posted and saw who their opponents were. I don't think it's right that you should get to.
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Post by The Sandmen on Feb 21, 2018 11:44:38 GMT -5
You wouldn't let anyone else change their GP list after the card was posted and saw who their opponents were. I don't think it's right that you should get to. But that's the difference. If I was doing it to cheat, I obviously saw my GP opponents before I posted it, and could have changed my pick then. If anything, I am being ridiculously up-front, in posting my original list, asking if i can replace my guy, and even including who I would replace him with. Also, in terms of the "why", this happens to me all the time. I do everything in simmer-mode, then once I get that done and get a chance to look at the site from member-mode, I see what I would have done. In this case, as a member, I would not have put my SuperFight Champion in the GP, as I had plans for him. I also do not think it is fair to slow down the site's progress for myself either. So I don't take the extra time to be simmer AND member, I do simmer stuff first, then member stuff when it doesn't slow anything down. I.E. This card is posted. If I was still doing member stuff, it would not be posted, as I would be tinkering with other roster stuff. You can also see this in how I forget to upgrade my fighters for fights they need upgraded for all the time as well.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 21, 2018 11:56:48 GMT -5
You wouldn't let anyone else change their GP list after the card was posted and saw who their opponents were. I don't think it's right that you should get to. But that's the difference. If I was doing it to cheat, I obviously saw my GP opponents before I posted it, and could have changed my pick then. If anything, I am being ridiculously up-front, in posting my original list, asking if i can replace my guy, and even including who I would replace him with. Also, in terms of the "why", this happens to me all the time. I do everything in simmer-mode, then once I get that done and get a chance to look at the site from member-mode, I see what I would have done. In this case, as a member, I would not have put my SuperFight Champion in the GP, as I had plans for him. I also do not think it is fair to slow down the site's progress for myself either. So I don't take the extra time to be simmer AND member, I do simmer stuff first, then member stuff when it doesn't slow anything down. I.E. This card is posted. If I was still doing member stuff, it would not be posted, as I would be tinkering with other roster stuff. You can also see this in how I forget to upgrade my fighters for fights they need upgraded for all the time as well. I understand that Justin... But it's not about the title or you being the simmer vs being a member or even about you cheating cuz Sylvia has a far better chance of whipping Nog's ass than Silva's. It's about the principle of it man... and we both know that if anyone else was in your position and submitted their list then wanted to change it after the card was posted, you'd tell them they couldn't. Probably citing the same reasoning you are here about slowing the site down or just outright accusing them of trying to cheat by pulling the SF Champion out of the GP, whether they claimed to have "plans for _______ as champion" or not. I mean, do what you're going to do... You will anyways, right? It doesn't matter what anyone says. I just don't think it's right that you'd do this for yourself when you wouldn't allow anyone else to do it.
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Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 21, 2018 11:58:31 GMT -5
i mean the replacement is a weaker fighter so yeah thats fine. id say no if it was other way around
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Post by The Sandmen on Feb 21, 2018 11:59:14 GMT -5
we both know that if anyone else was in your position and submitted their list then wanted to change it after the card was posted, you'd tell them they couldn't. Probably citing the same reasoning you are here about slowing the site down or just outright accusing them of trying to cheat by pulling the SF Champion out of the GP, whether they claimed to have "plans for _______ as champion" or not. No, my reason for everyone else is that I don't want people changing their GP line up based on seeing who their opponents are. That's pretty much 100% of the reason for that rule. I am necessarily exempt from that circumstance, since, if I were to change my team for that reason, I would have done it before it was posted.
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Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 21, 2018 12:00:59 GMT -5
you could have just done it and no one eould have known so i appreciate the transparency
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Post by The Sandmen on Feb 21, 2018 12:15:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess what it really comes down to for me is this, from the rules: Anything else I should know?I guess just that this site operates very much on a "Spirit of the Law" over "Letter of the Law" system. In a nutshell, that means that the INTENT of a rule outweighs any oversights or omissions in the WORDING of the rule. (i.e. If a rule says "You can't upgrade your guy past 85", that does not mean you can upgrade your women to 100 just because they were not specifically included in the literal wording of the rule.) For the most part, I try to cover all loopholes, but sometimes unforeseen stuff comes up. In those cases, we look at WHY a rule exists, and remain consistent with the WHY more than the HOW of its wording. This avoids silly loopholes that can ruin the site, and also maintains the fun and integrity of the game as a whole for everyone. The spirit of the rule (that you cannot edit your picks once they are posted), is it's the only way to ensure no one changes their picks based on who they are matched up against. Since it is 100% moot here, I don't see any logical reason to force it on a situation that it is not relevant to in the least.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 21, 2018 12:23:48 GMT -5
we both know that if anyone else was in your position and submitted their list then wanted to change it after the card was posted, you'd tell them they couldn't. Probably citing the same reasoning you are here about slowing the site down or just outright accusing them of trying to cheat by pulling the SF Champion out of the GP, whether they claimed to have "plans for _______ as champion" or not. No, my reason for everyone else is that I don't want people changing their GP line up based on seeing who their opponents are. That's pretty much 100% of the reason for that rule. I am necessarily exempt from that circumstance, since, if I were to change my team for that reason, I would have done it before it was posted. And that's fine Justin... Like Mike said, the transparency is appreciated. I just simply don't agree with the principle of it and don't think it's right for any reason. At the end of the day, you're still going to do what you want right? So, either way, it doesn't matter. You simply asked if folks for input/feedback or had any objections. I provided my input on it. That's it. I'm not fighting for or against it. I simply don't think it's right that you'd do it for yourself and not anyone else who had the same exact same reasoning as you're claiming. Say if Sylvia had won the SF title and I had forgotten that I had him in as a primary on my GP list, saw the card and asked to have him replaced cuz I had "plans for him as champion". What would your thoughts be on that? What would the consensus of the league be? I can tell you from experience, it'd be: "Kruze is just trying to cheat." or "Kruze is just too chicken to put the title on the line." and I'd be baited, ridiculed, ultimately laughed at and told "No, you submitted your list and the card is posted. Too bad. You're too late". But whatever... Do what you want. You're going to anyways. Just giving my opinion, which you asked folks for.
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Post by The Sandmen on Feb 21, 2018 12:32:20 GMT -5
Say if Sylvia had won the SF title and I had forgotten that I had him in as a primary on my GP list, saw the card and asked to have him replaced cuz I had "plans for him as champion". What would your thoughts be on that? What would the consensus of the league be? I can tell you from experience, it'd be: "Kruze is just trying to cheat." or "Kruze is just too chicken to put the title on the line." and I'd be baited, ridiculed, ultimately laughed at To be honest, I would probably accept that. Taking a title-holder out makes sense. The other big thing is there are several extenuating circumstances here as well. 1) The SuperFight belt is a challenge belt. If you challenge for it, you know that fight is coming. I didn't challenge for it though, I was challenged BY the title holder. So I didn't really have that in mind when I send my list in. 2) If I did not recieve your updated GP list, I absolutely, for sure, would have contacted you and told you NOT to put Sarah D'Alelio in as your Openweight fighter. Just so happens I was talking to you about something else anyways, and it came up, but still. 3) This time of season is busy for me (as simmer), so me (as member) suffers a lot, and this season has been about the worst yet, from dealing with basement leaks, to work on HH, to getting 2 new teams organised. It's been hectic in admin-mode. A regular member, if they provided me with those circumstances, would be given some degree of leniency. 4) "The spirit of the law" vs. "the letter of the law" Also, I'm totally cool saying Anderson/Justin is afraid to put Anderson's title on the line here. Ridicule me all you want. Everyone. By all means. That is why I would like to NOT have him in the GP as SuperFight Champion, lol But that is not something that changed based on GP matchups that I did not have access to before.
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Post by The Sandmen on Feb 21, 2018 12:38:43 GMT -5
And lastly, if I can take him out, it will mean I can update the Champion Banner. Otherwise I have to wait until the damned GP is over to do that.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 21, 2018 12:55:34 GMT -5
Say if Sylvia had won the SF title and I had forgotten that I had him in as a primary on my GP list, saw the card and asked to have him replaced cuz I had "plans for him as champion". What would your thoughts be on that? What would the consensus of the league be? I can tell you from experience, it'd be: "Kruze is just trying to cheat." or "Kruze is just too chicken to put the title on the line." and I'd be baited, ridiculed, ultimately laughed at To be honest, I would probably accept that. Taking a title-holder out makes sense. The other big thing is there are several extenuating circumstances here as well. 1) The SuperFight belt is a challenge belt. If you challenge for it, you know that fight is coming. I didn't challenge for it though, I was challenged BY the title holder. So I didn't really have that in mind when I send my list in. 2) If I did not recieve your updated GP list, I absolutely, for sure, would have contacted you and told you NOT to put Sarah D'Alelio in as your Openweight fighter. Just so happens I was talking to you about something else anyways, and it came up, but still. 3) This time of season is busy for me (as simmer), so me (as member) suffers a lot, and this season has been about the worst yet, from dealing with basement leaks, to work on HH, to getting 2 new teams organised. It's been hectic in admin-mode. A regular member, if they provided me with those circumstances, would be given some degree of leniency. 4) "The spirit of the law" vs. "the letter of the law" Also, I'm totally cool saying Anderson/Justin is afraid to put Anderson's title on the line here. Ridicule me all you want. Everyone. By all means. That is why I would like to NOT have him in the GP as SuperFight Champion, lol But that is not something that changed based on GP matchups that I did not have access to before. And I totally understand all that man... But please, save your "spirit of the law" vs. "letter of the law" bullshit cuz we've had that particular debate over and over already too; we don't agree on that either, right? lol So, let's just leave that one alone, cuz this isn't an argument, ok? I simply don't agree with the change on the principle of it, despite it benefiting me immensely in the GP. I know damn well that if I'd made the same request myself, in the same circumstances, it wouldn't have been allowed; whether you claim to contrary right now, to make your case for it, or not. Cuz we both know the backlash and ridicule that would come of it from our past experiences here with other things. I'm not saying do it or don't it, just that I don't agree with it. That's it.
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