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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 6, 2013 18:12:25 GMT -5
Are you saying Anderson's a Hall of Famer right now? Most of these fighters are still active IRL yet you're sitting here and comparing them to the like of Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Roy, etc. What a joke? I could see you grouping guys like the Shamrocks, Bas Rutten, Chuck Liddell, Tito, etc. in a Hall of Famer category, but guys that aren't even finished their careers yet, get real dude. It's ALL your opinion. And I really don't need to hear yours everyday saying how shitty you think my fighters are. Just back off, shut up and leave me, and my team, the fuck alone. Seriously. I am saying you are fighting against indisputable hall of famers like Anderson, GSP, Fedor, etc. and you are upset because your team of "no-chance-in-hell of being in the hall of fame" guys are not dominating them. That is all I am saying. I have my "fun" guys too, like Askren, Rin, Zoila - these people aren't hall of famers, but I don't get mad if people say they are joke fighters, and I don't get mad if they lose to legends of the sport. And you can claim it's my opinion all you want, but it's also the opinion of, you know, EVERYONE, that Jason MacDonald and Ed Herman are NOT Matt Hughes, GSP, Anderson Silva, Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, Mark COleman, and, you know, every other current or future UFC/MMA Hall of Famer. It's cool to have guys you like - I have them too. But to pretend they are the best in the universe and should be donimating HoFers just because they fought 1 MMA fight (making them eligible here) is stupid. Even by your logic.
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 6, 2013 18:16:07 GMT -5
Also, for the record, it's not just you. Mike has drafted more stupid people than anyone in ManMMA history. Mike grabs streaky or trendy people, then here (and in real life) they get destroyed. Paul Sass, Lavar Johnson, Phil Davis, CHad Mendes. I think all those clowns are Mike's doing. Like, look at the list of Free Agents. There are TONS of crap fighters there that people drafted that sucked.
You need to stop being so sensitive about your fighters sucking, and just enjoy them. That's what I do. (Struve, Stann, Askren, Chonnan, Gracie, Herrig), etc. Difference is, I get ADD and dump most of them after a time. You don't. It's all good, brother.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 7, 2013 10:55:29 GMT -5
First off, I never said they should be "dominating" these fighters at all. I realize that sometimes it is due to randomness and that my MWs are more mid-card fighters, even though MacD's starting to make a case for himself, finally.
The major problem I have with you, and anyone else that's decided to say that ALL my fighters don't belong here, is that I have fighters like Lesnar, Sylvia, Barnett, Cruz, Brown, Davis, Kedzie, etc.; all of which should all be, at the very least, competitive if not win against some of the "elite" fighters here. Hell, even Gustafsson, Danzig, and to a point, Kampmann, have proven their worth around here as well. As for my women, I have current and former champions (IRL) on this team, most of which are currently or have been listed as top 10 fighters in their weight classes in their careers, but they don't get the respect they likely deserve, even if they're undefeated or current champions, because you claim they've fought "nobodies" when Megumi Fujii has fought a longer list of these "nobdies", yet you consider her as one of these "elite" fighters when she probably shouldn't be.
I may like all my fighters, but I didn't pick them all solely on that basis alone.
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 7, 2013 16:07:05 GMT -5
when Megumi Fujii has fought a longer list of these "nobdies", yet you consider her as one of these "elite" fighters when she probably shouldn't be. Me, and, you know, the ENTIRE WMMA community at the time of her ManMMA creation. Point?
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 7, 2013 16:19:15 GMT -5
when Megumi Fujii has fought a longer list of these "nobdies", yet you consider her as one of these "elite" fighters when she probably shouldn't be. Me, and, you know, the ENTIRE WMMA community at the time of her ManMMA creation. Point? My point is that you made the more current fighters shittier based on their records of fighting "nobodies", which you've claimed to me MANY times as one of the major criteria components in determining how good a fighter is in your fighter creation process. I'm not saying Fujii is junk, cuz she's not... but what I am saying is that you made her OVER what she likely should have been despite who she's fought and even beaten for that matter.
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 7, 2013 16:28:46 GMT -5
You have hard times listening.
I told you this:
1) I made the original 10 (or whatever) women based on then-current, unified, global, consolidated WMMA rankings.
2) From there, everyone I made was based on rankings/records in conjuction with those original women (if they beat them, and had good records, their overalls were made a bit higher, if they lost, their overalls were a bit lower, etc).
3) If a woman had fought NONE of those women (I don;t even think that has come up yet), I would go by record. If she had 5 fights, and none of those fighters even had a wikipedia page, then she would not be made very high, since she is an unestablished rookie.
What you have routinely been asking me to do is make a wikipedia-less 7-3 (in real life) fighter better than people like Megumi Fujii (26-2 IRL). I am unwilling to do that.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 7, 2013 17:19:57 GMT -5
You have hard times listening. I told you this: 1) I made the original 10 (or whatever) women based on then-current, unified, global, consolidated WMMA rankings. 2) From there, everyone I made was based on rankings/records in conjuction with those original women (if they beat them, and had good records, their overalls were made a bit higher, if they lost, their overalls were a bit lower, etc). 3) If a woman had fought NONE of those women (I don;t even think that has come up yet), I would go by record. If she had 5 fights, and none of those fighters even had a wikipedia page, then she would not be made very high, since she is an unestablished rookie. What you have routinely been asking me to do is make a wikipedia-less 7-3 (in real life) fighter better than people like Megumi Fujii (26-2 IRL). I am unwilling to do that. And this is why you fail... Wikipedia is NOT anything remotely close to any sort of any MMA rankings nor is it any sort of source to anything other than an information tool and shouldn't be of any criteria for how you determine how good any fighters are. Not being on Wikipedia doesn't dictate how good or bad a fighter is... That, in and of itself, is beyond ridiculous. That's like saying if you don't have a Twitter account, then you don't exist. lol
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 7, 2013 18:40:39 GMT -5
For something to be on wikipedia (and stay there) it needs to be considered socially or culturally relevant. If a fighter is not considered relevant, they are not good.
Wikipedia was not used in any way for rankings.
I think this further shows your lack of reading and THAT being why YOU fail.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 7, 2013 20:20:46 GMT -5
For something to be on wikipedia (and stay there) it needs to be considered socially or culturally relevant. If a fighter is not considered relevant, they are not good. Wikipedia was not used in any way for rankings. I think this further shows your lack of reading and THAT being why YOU fail. How do you consider Wikipedia to be of that much relevance when any yo-yo can go in there and change anything they want or add/delete anything they want? You seriously make no sense. Not everything on Wikipedia is 100% fact, even at the best of times. It's an information tool, Period. I think this further shows your lack of integrity... either that or you really give Wikipedia WAY too much credit for being "relevant" lol and that's even more why you fail.
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 7, 2013 21:29:06 GMT -5
You clearly know nothing about wikipedia. As someone who has written for wikipedia (several times) I know that the wikipedia Nazi's delete A LOT of stuff. I added an article about the first MMA event EVER in Ontario. It was deemed unimportant, and deleted after a small debate. I have been part of several wikipedia debates about deleting and merging articles.
So no, any clown can NOT just walk up and add anything to Wikipedia.
THAT, is why you fail.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 8, 2013 0:31:58 GMT -5
You clearly know nothing about wikipedia. As someone who has written for wikipedia (several times) I know that the wikipedia Nazi's delete A LOT of stuff. I added an article about the first MMA event EVER in Ontario. It was deemed unimportant, and deleted after a small debate. I have been part of several wikipedia debates about deleting and merging articles. So no, any clown can NOT just walk up and add anything to Wikipedia. THAT, is why you fail. ROFL Funny enough, that just proves my point ever further that Wikipedia is ridiculous, and just an information source, not a standard. Yet you hold the same "relevant" standard of them yourself because you "lost" an argument when obviously the first ever MMA event in Ontario, folks would actually look up and is actually relevant. But hey, if you can't beat'em, join'em though, right? : I getcha. I just don't follow that same creed, thanks.
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 8, 2013 1:18:52 GMT -5
You read the part about wikipedia having no actual part in their builds, correct? It was a supplimental argument to how a fighter was not as relavant as another fighter.
But really, all of this is incredibly besides the point (whatever point that is we are even arguing at this point...)
If you have a problem with Megumi Fujii's build, go back a year, and message pretty much every major MMA ranking site on the face of the Earth. Pound for Pound, she and Cyborg were always numbers 1 and 2. Like, across the board. That's why they were drafted 1 and 2 in the first add a woman draft.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 8, 2013 10:04:33 GMT -5
You read the part about wikipedia having no actual part in their builds, correct? It was a supplimental argument to how a fighter was not as relavant as another fighter. But really, all of this is incredibly besides the point (whatever point that is we are even arguing at this point...) If you have a problem with Megumi Fujii's build, go back a year, and message pretty much every major MMA ranking site on the face of the Earth. Pound for Pound, she and Cyborg were always numbers 1 and 2. Like, across the board. That's why they were drafted 1 and 2 in the first add a woman draft. Obviously you don't read what you type or it just flies out of your brain without you even thinking about it. What you have routinely been asking me to do is make a wikipedia-less 7-3 (in real life) fighter better than people like Megumi Fujii (26-2 IRL). I am unwilling to do that. What this statement tells me right here is that you do use/lean on Wikipedia to determine how good or "relevent" a fighter is. When in reality whether it's Pound for Pound or their Weight Class rankings, they're already relevant, regardless of being on Wikipedia or not. For example, are you saying that if Cyborg and Fujii did not have Wikipedia pages that they'd be irrelevant, and their builds would reflect that even though they were the best Pound for Pound on the rankings? By what you've already intimated, that is the case and you'd still have made both of them amazing regardless of a Wikipedia page. The other thing that I find most hilarious out of all of this is you keep referring to the Pound for Pound rankings from the exact same site I showed you for the Weight Class rankings and what you told me when I did that was that site wasn't relevant and was just some random rankings site, yet you used that site for the Pound for Pound rankings. How can one set of rankings be more relevant than the other if it's from the same source? Now, granted I'm not saying that D'Alelio should be as good as Cyborg nor quite as good as Fujii, yet... That's my job to get her there now. However, what I am saying is that, based on the research and information I provided you myself for D'Alelio, which you refuted to me on MSN, and the concept that you continually intimate that if they've fought "nobodies" then they won't be as good, is really lame if you don't use the same logic for all fighters, regardless of what their name is or if their on Wikipedia or not. Especially when said fighter is ranked 8th in the world at her weight class; over top of 2 highly respected fighters in WMMA, one of which is currently a contender vying for a shot at Rousey's UFC championship. So, I'm sorry... but your logic is seriously flawed in this respect.
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 8, 2013 10:18:09 GMT -5
For example, are you saying that if Cyborg and Fujii did not have Wikipedia pages that they'd be irrelevant, and their builds would reflect that even though they were the best Pound for Pound on the rankings? They do, because they are, so your argument is beyond moot. Both are/were world champions. Seriously, dude, where are we going with this? It was pointless about 3 days ago. Just let it go.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 8, 2013 10:50:15 GMT -5
For example, are you saying that if Cyborg and Fujii did not have Wikipedia pages that they'd be irrelevant, and their builds would reflect that even though they were the best Pound for Pound on the rankings? They do, because they are, so your argument is beyond moot. Both are/were world champions. Seriously, dude, where are we going with this? It was pointless about 3 days ago. Just let it go. It's not moot just because you say it is Sandman. I asked you a question, albeit a hypothetical, it's still a legitimate one. Yet you refuse to answer it because I actually make a point. You just deflected it like you do everything else. Answer the question: Are you saying that if Cyborg and Fujii did not have Wikipedia pages that they'd be irrelevant, and their builds would reflect that even though they were the best Pound for Pound on the rankings?
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