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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 8, 2013 10:59:24 GMT -5
I am saying it's moot because, dude, it really is. If they did not have Wikipedia pages, NO women would have wikipedia pages. Having a wikipedia page has nothing to do with their build. For the 4th time.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 8, 2013 11:42:14 GMT -5
I am saying it's moot because, dude, it really is. If they did not have Wikipedia pages, NO women would have wikipedia pages. Having a wikipedia page has nothing to do with their build. For the 4th time. How is it moot when one minute that you say: What you have routinely been asking me to do is make a wikipedia-less 7-3 (in real life) fighter better than people like Megumi Fujii (26-2 IRL). I am unwilling to do that. ...then the next minute, that it has nothing to do with it?! Are you insane? You're contradicting yourself and just proving my point even further that these fighters are made based allot on what YOU think of the fighters and not necessarily just on their merits alone. You brought up Wikipedia yourself and claimed that they weren't "relevant" without a page, therefore effectively saying they were made inferior partially due to that, but are now backtracking on it cuz you don't wanna look bias. So which is it? Cuz I really don't see how you can sit there, consistently contradict yourself but in the same breath claim that my points are "moot" because they conflict with yours and I'm actually calling you on your shit. lol In any event, my points are these: 1) If Wikipedia has had no bearing on them whatsoever, then it shouldn't even have been mentioned by you in the first place. And since it was, it obviously does and has had bearing on them when it shouldn't except in the instance of information on getting their fighting disciplines and training, which is completely understandable, yet that information is easily accessible from other sources. But if they don't have a Wikipedia page, that doesn't make them any less significant of a fighter; especially when they are ranked as a Top 10 fighter in the world for their weight class. That's NOT insignificant. 2) If you weren't adding what YOU think of these fighters into the creation process, in conjunction with everything else, I would seriously question if you were human or not, but also if you weren't, many of them would be a touch better than they actually are here in ManMMA or vice versa if you consider them "nobodies" or hadn't heard of them before. And that's not to say they'd be beasts or anything, cuz I get the idea of current/former champions, HOFers, etc. That's just to say that they'd be more consistent in terms of what they do when they're in the cage; not necessarily when it comes to wins, but in terms of their actual abilities.
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 8, 2013 15:35:47 GMT -5
The shorter my replies are (in a DESPERATE attempt to kill this pointless debate) the longer yours are.
You are still having serious problems with understanding the difference between supplemental information and primary information.
When creating fighters the first time, the process went EXACTLY as follows:
1) The PRIMARY information I went by was their rankings across about 9 sites. Including the one you sent me later possibly, yes. But POUND FOR POUND rankings, not weight class rankings.
2) From there, everyone's fight history was looked at, either on wikipedia or sherdog. Their wins-by and losses-by was taken into account when looking at establishing weaknesses and strengths (i.e. Megumi Fujii has like, 19 wins by submission, so her submission skills were made high).
3) From THERE, everyone was given a look-over based on skills outlined on sherdog, wikipedia, or reliable sources elsewhere (i.g. Rousey=Olympic Judo, therefore takedowns and subs were higher).
4) All of the core fighters were established this way. From there, any newly added fighters were brought in using steps 2-3, with a bit of step 1. But mostly looking at their fight history. If they had a win over someone already in the league, their overall was made a tiny bit better, if a loss, it was made a sliver lower.
That's it. Wikipedia is used as supplemental information. And in the case of D'alelio, and other non-wikipedia fighters, the info is on Sherdog, so it still doesn't negatively affect their build.
My wikipedia argument is SOLELY a rebuttal to you claiming D'Alelio should be rated as high as Fujii. It has minimal bearing on their build, if any at all.
Hope that clarifies things for you slightly, as this "debate" has become INCREDIBLY tedious at this point.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 8, 2013 16:54:36 GMT -5
It does clarify a bit, but I didn't ever once say D'Alelio should be rated AS HIGH as Fujii. You brought Sarah into the conversation by mentioning her record. All I said was that Fujii was likely made a bit above where she's actually should be based on the people she's fought and on your assessment of folks fighting "nobodies" not really having any bearing on how good they are as a fighter; which Fujii has fought a majority of. That was it.
You turned it into some sort of relevancy issue whereby saying that if you don't have a Wikipedia page, you're irrelevant and not legitimate; which is a completely false statement. And I only pointed to the weight class rankings to accentuate that fact because if you're ranked in the Top 10 at something in the entire world, that's not irrelevant; regardless of whether Wikipedia recognizes you for it with a page or not. Those are legitimate World Rankings, not just some random site I found because the links we first exchanged were from the same site. You sent the P4P list and I sent you the weight class list, but still claimed it was some random site I found, yet it's a site you use yourself, and allot of folks use as a trusted site for MMA information.
The problem I have with solely going off the P4P list, is that the biggest list I've seen is a Top 15 and there's a helluva lot of good women's fighters out there; allot more than 15 anyways.
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 9, 2013 2:56:50 GMT -5
You turned it into some sort of relevancy issue whereby saying that if you don't have a Wikipedia page, you're irrelevant and not legitimate; which is a completely false statement. How many Hall of Famers in ANY sport/league do not have a wikipedia page? It is definitely an indication of relevance. Not the SOLE indicater (nor did I ever say it was), but it's a definite one. Bet Sean Avery has a wikipedia page. Bet you would never find him in a Legends sim league. Just sayin' Liking people, and them having a legit shot against the best of the best of the best are 2 different things. Literally, that is all I have been saying now, and for forever. The problem I have with solely going off the P4P list, is that the biggest list I've seen is a Top 15 and there's a helluva lot of good women's fighters out there; allot more than 15 anyways. When we started the women's division, we had like, 8. Then 16. Remember, this is like a year ago in real time. There was no Invicta, Ronda Rousey was not a dominate champion, etc. The P4P process was more than legit at that time. Remember, people selected their own women, I did not select them for them.
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Post by xx - Team GAP on Apr 9, 2013 4:03:02 GMT -5
Rousey sucks.. bring on Awesome Kong...
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