|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 7, 2020 14:04:07 GMT -5
It's a fair question to ask about him, and I would answer it. If my job was making films, and Justin made films, and Justin did something that was significantly in the public eye, and Justin came out and said he didn't feel it went that way, but understood why the victim felt it was and they settled out of court, and then someone asked me if it affected my relationship with Justin or complicated it, I would be able to answer that question however I felt, and they are permitted to ask that question. It's a question. It's not an implication. It's a question. This whole thread is literally "we are allowed to question the legacy of people". And some of you are like "nah bro". You'd be okay with somebody asking you that right after he died? Cause I'm not as close to Justin as you are and I'd be pretty pissed if somebody wanted to bring that up while I was grieving. It's different if you're a celebrity. You are in the limelight, and you agreed to an interview, and most interviews line up what questions are asked so no one is caught off guard. Leslie handled herself well with very straight-forward (this should probably be asked) question, and Gayle was pretty respectful with how the question was asked, without victim shaming. But this is ManMMA, and I guess throwing around unsupported evidence and using hypotheticals to try and support a point is what we do. So much for academics and common sense. What's most interesting to me is the same people that say we shouldn't ask difficult questions when they are dead say the same thing when they are alive. Sometimes difficult questions need to be and should be asked. Sometimes the things that make us uncomfortable are what help us grow for the better. For instance, I think Kobe's sexual assault charge is very important to criminal justice history because it shows and teaches future instances of what not to do and how to treat sex-crime victims in the media and in the courts. Everything is relative, everything has benefits that come from uncomfortable and bad things that happen. How do we ever learn from anything if we don't examine hard truths? Stopping everything because people are dead is bizarre. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Team GAP on Feb 7, 2020 14:08:48 GMT -5
This whole thread is literally "we are allowed to question the legacy of people". And some of you are like "nah bro". no you shouldnt question a legacy. if there is a situation then question the situation not a legacy. a legacy is when someone proves something and it lives on past the persons death. for example: if i prove im the best at something you dont question that im the best... cause i proved it. but if i am accused of killing someone.. it doesnt stop me from being the best.. it just puts a bad question about me if i was a murderer or not... you questioned things as if to accuse him of being a rapist which he wasnt.. if you question then you cant know already or uour accusing not questioning. |
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 7, 2020 14:11:29 GMT -5
This whole thread is literally "we are allowed to question the legacy of people". And some of you are like "nah bro". if there is a situation then question the situation not a legacy. a legacy is when someone proves something and it lives on past the persons death. for example: if i prove im the best at something you dont question that im the best... cause i proved it. but if i am accused of killing someone.. it doesnt stop me from being the best.. it just puts a bad question about me if i was a murderer or not... you questioned things as if to accuse him of being a rapist which he wasnt.. if you question then you cant know already or uour accusing not questioning. Prove it. This entire comment is ridiculous. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Team GAP on Feb 7, 2020 14:18:51 GMT -5
no you shouldnt question a legacy. if there is a situation then question the situation not a legacy. a legacy is when someone proves something and it lives on past the persons death. for example: if i prove im the best at something you dont question that im the best... cause i proved it. but if i am accused of killing someone.. it doesnt stop me from being the best.. it just puts a bad question about me if i was a murderer or not... you questioned things as if to accuse him of being a rapist which he wasnt.. if you question then you cant know already or uour accusing not questioning. Prove it. This entire comment is ridiculous. read what i wrote. its not ridiculous its how a decent human understands and respects a legacy. |
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 7, 2020 14:22:13 GMT -5
Prove it. This entire comment is ridiculous. read what i wrote. its not ridiculous its how a decent human understands and respects a legacy. I read your comment. Have you read anything I shared? |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Feb 7, 2020 21:48:38 GMT -5
no you shouldnt question a legacy. if there is a situation then question the situation not a legacy. a legacy is when someone proves something and it lives on past the persons death. for example: if i prove im the best at something you dont question that im the best... cause i proved it. but if i am accused of killing someone.. it doesnt stop me from being the best.. it just puts a bad question about me if i was a murderer or not... you questioned things as if to accuse him of being a rapist which he wasnt.. if you question then you cant know already or uour accusing not questioning. Prove it. This entire comment is ridiculous. It's not actually... Chris Benoit can be put in the same category on quite a few boxes... Yes, murder & rape are very separate things, but, at the end of the day, there needs to be some separation cuz, whether you're a celebrity or not, your public life isn't always the same as your private life. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Team GAP on Feb 8, 2020 0:53:36 GMT -5
read what i wrote. its not ridiculous its how a decent human understands and respects a legacy. I read your comment. Have you read anything I shared? i have read what you wrote. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Team GAP on Feb 8, 2020 0:59:38 GMT -5
Prove it. This entire comment is ridiculous. It's not actually... Chris Benoit can be put in the same category on quite a few boxes... Yes, murder & rape are very separate things, but, at the end of the day, there needs to be some separation cuz, whether you're a celebrity or not, your public life isn't always the same as your private life. chris benoits legacy is that he was an amazing wrestler. him being a murderer is a seperate legacy he has... sadly. but him being a murderer does not make him less of a wrestler. you can say chris benoit is shit because of him killing his family. but you shouldnt say because he killed he was a shit wrestler. |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Feb 8, 2020 8:37:40 GMT -5
It's not actually... Chris Benoit can be put in the same category on quite a few boxes... Yes, murder & rape are very separate things, but, at the end of the day, there needs to be some separation cuz, whether you're a celebrity or not, your public life isn't always the same as your private life. chris benoits legacy is that he was an amazing wrestler. him being a murderer is a seperate legacy he has... sadly. but him being a murderer does not make him less of a wrestler. you can say chris benoit is shit because of him killing his family. but you shouldnt say because he killed he was a shit wrestler. What the fuck... nobody is saying Kobe is a shit basketball player or even a shit person, we're just discussing something that happened in his life. Hitler was a great public speaker, but we dont talk about just that, do we? |
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 8, 2020 9:53:01 GMT -5
It's interesting because in one breath, you're saying "legacy, don't touch the legacy" and then saying that people have "two legacies, one where they are a great athlete and the other where they are a child and wife murderer."
You have 1 legacy. Your life.
It's also interesting that you say things need to be separated but that it's their entire life.
YES. That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. That everything needs to be considered. What kind of person he is on and off the court, what he does when no one is watching is what really defines a person. And pretending that the sexual assault allegation isn't part of that discussion is not the way to go.
It's ALL his legacy. A singular legacy of the person - Kobe Bryant.
And that's how it should be for every single person ever.
|
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Bulldozers on Feb 8, 2020 10:33:57 GMT -5
But why talk about it?
If Kobe wasn’t dead this conversation would’ve never even started but because he died all of a sudden you feel the need to discuss it? Why didn’t you when he was still alive? Why is it now important for you to bring this up while in the past it never was?
|
|
|
|
Post by xx - Team GAP on Feb 8, 2020 10:34:26 GMT -5
your right.. kobe has 1 legacy... a great basketball player. thats it.
the rape allegations were nothing but allegations.. the sex was consensual and thdre was no rape. no victim.. nothing.
so we rsmember kobe fod his legacy and nothing else
|
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 8, 2020 11:12:51 GMT -5
lol ok there guys
|
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Feb 8, 2020 11:18:16 GMT -5
But why talk about it? If Kobe wasn’t dead this conversation would’ve never even started but because he died all of a sudden you feel the need to discuss it? Why didn’t you when he was still alive? Why is it now important for you to bring this up while in the past it never was? Because usually when you're still alive your "legacy" and your ability to perform corrective actions and try and improve upon things, or make amends, etc. etc. is STILL applicable, because you're alive. And when you're alive, you can invest your time and energy into things that you think are important, regardless of the motivation behind it. Now he's dead. Now we get to look critically at a public figure, his highs, his lows, and what to make of it. I never said if I felt one way or the other about Kobe. I said it's important to look at his life, his legacy, his accomplishments and failures, legal or otherwise, as a whole. Picking and choosing is a disservice to his life, his history, his permanence in print. This thread is not a pick on Kobe thread, it's a discussion of how public figures, heroes, politicians, celebrities, should be viewed as a whole on their merit and lasting effects of their actions and decisions. Telling the world we need to forget that he was accused of sexual assault is a rewrite of his history. It's revisionist history. I don't know how many ways I need to say this. People are allowed, and should, discuss everything about people when you are analyzing their lasting impact on the world. Especially notable public figures. Blocking and stonewalling that and only letting the information YOU want and YOU are comfortable with having be the topic, especially when people are out there doing that with threats, is literally fascism. If you can't accept or appreciate that history is under a constant microscope, then I can't help you. Enjoy your bubble. |
|
Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!