Delightfully Controversial Cap Suggestion

[The Sandmen]

This one's abound to get the arguments flowing, but let's discuss this suggestion.


After a brief discussion about who "should" be good, and who "should not" be in the league, this suggestion was pitched:

We have a list of available fighters, like what we have. Everyone on the list has a letter grade, and that letter grade determines the fighters cap. We would use this objective source as a guide. The ratings cap would be as follows:

Men's Division
1-25 A - 85
26-50 B - 84
51-100 C - 83
Anyone else - 81

I would suggest we keep women's as-is for now, since the scope of competitive WMMA is historically limited in comparison to men's.

We all know overalls aren't the be-all, end-all when it comes to performance, so this gives project fighters a lot of flexibility, but also gives the proven fighters a little bit of a (possible) advantage, so they are less likely to get destroyed by guys who have 4 MMA fights.

I would be in favour of going as far as applying this to all non-capped active ManMMA fighters, and I would be willing to bring any of my own fighters that exceeded these caps down to comply with the new cap system (I would not make anyone else do that). Fighters that are not capped under our current system but are over the new cap would become capped, but would not be forced to remove any upgrades to comply with the new cap.


I think this accomplishes many things.
1) Encourages everyone to go with the "best of all time" theme of the site.
2) Allows people to continue choosing any fighter of all time (except Jodran Mein, Thiago Silva, and "War Machine"), while providing additional challenges - these guys CAN be better than the top 100 of all time, but they need to be upgraded and upgraded well.
3) Creates additional care and accountability whe upgrading "project fighters"
4) Allows for a flexible cap if we get a "Chris Weidman" situation - Chris would come in at 81 cap, then as he evolved into his prime (which he is in now) his cap would go up, as his rankings did.

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Additional Notes of interest:

Here is how each team's current roster breaks down in terms of how many of each Grade you would have:


6A, 2C - Broad Street Bullies
2A, 2B - Camp Cannon
2A, 3B, 2C - Ferocity
2A, 3C - Lord Byron's Conquistadors
3B, 2C - Phoenix Fight Club
3A, 2B, 1C - Team GAP
2A, 2B, 1C - The Mighty Ducks
3A, 2B, 1C - The RocketMen
2A, 1B, 2C - The Sandmen
3A, 2B - West Coast Knockouts





The thing to remember is those are POTENTIAL maxes. Fighters only reach 85 if they are upgraded. Nothing would change other than their POSSIBLE max out number.

And something I realized I didn't include before (and realized after I was talking to Phoenix Fight Club on the phone) is perspective. To put things in perspective, right now, these are the people rated over 80 in each weight class:

LW - 11 (8 over 81)
MW - 9 (5 over 81)
HW - 11 (6 over 81)

The rest of the league, including some champions, #1 contenders, tournament finalists, top 5 ranked fighters, etc., are all under 80 here in this league. The average male fighter is between 74 and 76 (with some variance based on real life accomplishments).




There are currently 46 fighters available through FA or drafting that would be As, Bs, or Cs. Enough for every team here to swap 3 or more unranked fighters, if that was a concern.

[The Rocketmen]

So, instead of me making Joe Blow amazing by applying stat after stat into him as he continues to get better, win more, and eventually become a contender, he would only be as good as Joe Blow becomes in real life as a maximum based on the above threshold, regardless of his performance here?

...do we actually have a problem with people being good at upgrading the guys they have? I think a current problem we have is that everyone has their fighters, and are reluctant to trade "name" people. So, if I have to work with what I have, and what I have gets better than a name fighter, why should I be punished and capped?

[The Sandmen]

Mar 1, 2015 20:55:58 GMT -5 The Rocketmen said:

So, instead of me making Joe Blow amazing by applying stat after stat into him as he continues to get better, win more, and eventually become a contender, he would only be as good as Joe Blow becomes in real life as a maximum based on the above threshold, regardless of his performance here?

Joe Blow has a cap right now regardless of how he fights. We have losing fighters who are capped with our current system. The new system, as well as our current system, depends on how well you upgrade. Fedor is, head and shoulders, the highest rated fighter here. He is also barely able to crack the top 10 rankings. Someone like Condit is a contender, and has had, what, 3 upgrades? So to convert that to ratings as they apply here, you are looking at about an 85 vs. a 77, and the 77 has a MUCH better ManMMA record and rankings than the 85. Even against other capped fighters.

Mar 1, 2015 20:55:58 GMT -5 The Rocketmen said:

...do we actually have a problem with people being good at upgrading the guys they have? I think a current problem we have is that everyone has their fighters, and are reluctant to trade "name" people. So, if I have to work with what I have, and what I have gets better than a name fighter, why should I be punished and capped?

1) We're not talking about "names" we are talking about, literally, the best fighters of all time vs. guys who never fought for a minor-league title, let alone a UFC one.
2) Again, its not a punishment if you upgrade well, which most have shown themselves capable of doing. In fact, the opposite is true. Some of our most dominant champions were not capped. Cyborg is no where near cap.

All this does is give value to the 20 "best of the best" fighters currently sitting on FA with a 2-11 record who actually belong here, but never got upgraded and who will never be given a second chance because people are focussing on a Mike Pyle instead of a Frank Mir.



Overall, not unlike how on The GMX, Wayne Gretzky is rated higher than Aki Berg and always will be. I'm looking to bring a component of that here.

[xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club]

Mar 1, 2015 20:55:58 GMT -5 The Rocketmen said:

So, instead of me making Joe Blow amazing by applying stat after stat into him as he continues to get better, win more, and eventually become a contender, he would only be as good as Joe Blow becomes in real life as a maximum based on the above threshold, regardless of his performance here?

...do we actually have a problem with people being good at upgrading the guys they have? I think a current problem we have is that everyone has their fighters, and are reluctant to trade "name" people. So, if I have to work with what I have, and what I have gets better than a name fighter, why should I be punished and capped?

As Dave Hester says 'Yuuup'... true, I complain allot of shit... some warranted, some not... but this suggestion buries nearly all teams in ManMMA... I agree that many teams won't trade...
For me, keep it as it is...

[xx - Camp Cannon]

Cyborg has yet to win a title since girls have been upgraded, she ranked #10th right now

[The Sandmen]

We have a line-up of people trading right now? News to me. I would think people, MMA fans in particular, would be more opposed to a league where Douglas Lima is better than Fedor. Just...sayin....

[xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club]

The Sandmen: Easy for you to say when you have nearly all the fighters listed in the link you provided... Rocketmann has the some then a small minority have the rest... I say "Fuck You" to this proposal.

[xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club]

Honestly, all this proposal says is that any original members from season 1 can have good fighters or name fighters thay are good in this league... anyone else can 'fuck off'.

That lends to changing of the rules AGAIN why have it as 1 MMA fight to be eligible for ManMMA if you're gonna do this?

[xx - The Broad Street Bullies]

Until looking at that list, I didn't quite realize how good my team has been in history:

Georges St-Pierre (#2)
Chuck Liddell (#5)
B.J. Penn (#6)
Randy Couture (#7)
Kazushi Sakuraba (#21)
Urijah Faber (#25)
Anthony Pettis (#51)
Luke Rockhold (#82)
Bobby Lashley (NR)

[xx - Team GAP]

My response is simple.... No. Keep it the way it is.

[The Sandmen]

Here is how each team's current roster breaks down in terms of how many of each Grade you would have:


6A, 2C - Broad Street Bullies
2A, 2B - Camp Cannon
2A, 3B, 2C - Ferocity
2A, 3C - Lord Byron's Conquistadors
3B, 2C - Phoenix Fight Club
3A, 2B, 1C - Team GAP
2A, 2B, 1C - The Mighty Ducks
3A, 2B, 1C - The RocketMen
2A, 1B, 2C - The Sandmen
3A, 2B - West Coast Knockouts

[xx - Camp Cannon]

bullies would be stacked id be ok with having 2 a and 2 b but nowhere near bullies 6A

[The Sandmen]

But the thing to remember is those are POTENTIAL maxes. Fighters only reach 85 if they are upgraded. Nothing would change other than their POSSIBLE max out number.

And something I realized I didn't include before (and realized after I was talking to xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on the phone) is perspective. To put things in perspective, right now, these are the people rated over 80 in each weight class:

LW - 11 (8 over 81)
MW - 9 (5 over 81)
HW - 11 (6 over 81)

The rest of the league, including some champions, #1 contenders, tournament finalists, etc., are all under 80 here in this league.




And no one that you have already upgraded past these numbers would be lowered.

[xx - Camp Cannon]

yes but i have sam stout and melvin guillard who aren't even ranked how the hell are they going to beat guys that are 85 when thier cap is 81? its taking the level playing field away from them..if i did upgrade my men id only upgrade my as and bs and wouldnt worry bout the 81s cause they'll just be mediocre and lose to jachim hansen who prolly a 85 already..

[The Sandmen]

Mar 2, 2015 1:43:01 GMT -5 xx - Camp Cannon said:

yes but i have sam stout and melvin guillard who aren't even ranked how the hell are they going to beat guys that are 85 when thier cap is 81?

Right now they are both at around 74-76 (You have not upgraded them AT ALL, let alone enough to worry about their applicability to this suggestion) and they ARE beating guys rated 79-81. THAT is my point. If you upgrade right, none of this matters. It just gives the best of the best the inside lane. It doesn't make them the fastest runner in the race if they train properly.

Furthermore, 1) you don't give a shit about either of those fighers, and
2) They "should" not be beating guys who are among the 25 best fighters to have ever fought in MMA history. Just as Aki Berg should not get more points in a season than Wayne Gretzky, even if it is fantasy.

Mar 2, 2015 1:43:01 GMT -5 xx - Camp Cannon said:

.if i did upgrade my men id only upgrade my as and bs and wouldnt worry bout the 81s cause they'll just be mediocre

1) Which you don't, so moot point.
2) They would only be mediocre if you did a mediocre job at upgrading them and never bothered to fine-tune them (Condit is un-upgraded and one of our best MWs, so sometimes THAT isn't even necessary)

Mar 2, 2015 1:43:01 GMT -5 xx - Camp Cannon said:

jachim hansen who prolly a 85 already..

He's an 83 right now. When you talk out of your ass it reeks of ass. Use facts and logic, not random turds you pulled out of your rectum.


Also, the worst kept secret on ManMMA - Fedor is rated 85.2 right now, and has been for like, 2 seasons. Do you see him destroying everyone?