Delightfully Controversial Cap Suggestion

[xx - Camp Cannon]

Mar 2, 2015 20:45:03 GMT -5 xx - The Broad Street Bullies said:

So you're saying because a fighter beats someone, they're better than that someone? So because Matt Serra beat GSP, Serra is a better fighter than GSP?

beat not once but twice...

[The West Coast Knockouts]

I'm not a fan of the list but I'm willing to try something new.

[The Sandmen]

Mar 2, 2015 20:45:03 GMT -5 xx - The Broad Street Bullies said:

So you're saying because a fighter beats someone, they're better than that someone? So because Matt Serra beat GSP, Serra is a better fighter than GSP?

Ignore him. He is trolling again for attention (since half the reason this even came up is his constant threats to draft shittier and shittier fighters and power-upgrade them to be maxed out). As far as this discussion is concerned, he lost his right to have en opinion by turning himself into a troll. He spent half of last night trolling me about it on Skype too, rhyming off fighters he was going to take just to max out and "ruin the league". It's the kind of thing my 6 year old does. But even she gets bored of it after 10 mins. Cannon's been at it for 1 day and a half now. No logical arguments, just babble (i.e. "so i say NONONO!the NO movement shall began NONONO".)

[xx - Camp Cannon]

Mar 2, 2015 22:04:14 GMT -5 The West Coast Knockouts said:

I'm not a fan of the list but I'm willing to try something new.

]
nobodys a fan of the list its a simulation fantasy site not a realism ohh douglas lima can beat anderson silva so now we havta make rules on guys u can upgrade now BS that sandmen wants.. also it was fine when sandmen did it with joachim hansen and shinya aoki...

[xx - Camp Cannon]

Mar 2, 2015 22:37:03 GMT -5 The Sandmen said:

Mar 2, 2015 20:45:03 GMT -5 xx - The Broad Street Bullies said:

So you're saying because a fighter beats someone, they're better than that someone? So because Matt Serra beat GSP, Serra is a better fighter than GSP?

Ignore him. He is trolling again for attention (since half the reason this even came up is his constant threats to draft shittier and shittier fighters and power-upgrade them to be maxed out). As far as this discussion is concerned, he lost his right to have en opinion by turning himself into a troll. He spent half of last night trolling me about it on Skype too, rhyming off fighters he was going to take just to max out and "ruin the league". It's the kind of thing my 6 year old does. But even she gets bored of it after 10 mins. Cannon's been at it for 1 day and a half now. No logical arguments, just babble (i.e. "so i say NONONO!the NO movement shall began NONONO".)

are u making shit up and talking about me ? also im assuming if were using this fan polled popularity list from now on i can draft judo gene lebell than! sweet cant wait 4 next draft!

[The Sandmen]

Mar 2, 2015 19:03:27 GMT -5 Lord Byron's Conquistadors said:

if i understand this right thing it makes some sense cause then if it comes in still only guys gettin upgrades really benefit even if they are 85s still need upgrades to get to 85.

Exactly. Just like with our current cap (of 84) we have a whole league of people that COULD be 84 that have not been upgraded to that point. That is all this suggestion is doing. Modifying that cap slightly.

Mar 2, 2015 19:03:27 GMT -5 Lord Byron's Conquistadors said:

im all bout the history of the sport but i don love the list. its ok until the 80s then they start in with shooto guys with 8 fights. if we can take out those guys no one heard of like fukin 83 84 86 97 and 100 and put in guys after them that shod be befrore them like brian bowles mike brown mat lindllund jeremy horn i guess dc and davis but guys like formiga and lytle should be included over fukin 83 84 86 and 97. even pat curran hes ok but he aint no lytle and it hink that common knowledge. we can make those changes since no one watched shooto then id be ok with it i think. gotta respext the past man.

While I 100% agree with you, especially with Shinya Murofushi (10-4-1 in Shooto and having never fought anyone else anyone has heard of), I'm not sure picking and choosing who should be in the list would make the most sense when we are looking for an outside, objective source to establish our cap. Especially when this is apparently a tough sell here anyways. I'd be interested in hearing more from people, but I would strongly support what you said. Pull the no-names, pop in the title holders (like Brown, Bowles - whoever the next people on the list would be).

[xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club]

@The Sandmen: I honestly don't know why you even bother going through all this "getting people's input" crap when you've basically already decided that this is what you're going to do anyways, whether you have objections to it or not; it's a waste of your time and a waste of our time.

So either do it already and explain it more thoroughly so that we all understand what it really means and how it's actually going to work or just let it go... cuz, for me, I can already see that this is not going to be of any benefit to me, my team or my fighters. If anything, it's going to make my team worse... so my vote is still no.

[xx - Camp Cannon]

cause its a dictatorship instead of level playing field he wants ppl to be at a disadvantage cause thier fighter isn't popular.. that's all that list of greatest fighter is a popularity contest voted by fans.. make the site more real is his excuse pfftt...

[xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club]

Oh I know... but I look at what he's posted and I only have 3 B's and 2 C's?! Really? ...yet I have Brock Lesnar (Capped; former UFC Champion) not an "A" fighter? ...Dominick Cruz (Capped; former UFC & WEC Champion, never actually losing the UFC strap...) ...again, not an "A" fighter?! What about Mike Brown? Not Capped, but former WEC Champion and again, not an "A" fighter, and I'd bet he's considered one of the C's.

I mean, I could list more like my current IRL contenders like Alex Gustafsson & Rory MacDonald, but again... not "A" fighters apparently... probably not even B fighters either. All based on some other jack off's opinion? I don't think so Tim.

[The Sandmen]

Mar 3, 2015 11:33:31 GMT -5 xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club said:

If anything, it's going to make my team worse... so my vote is still no.

Your 77 rated fighters are not suddenly turning into 60 rated fighters. No one's team is getting worse. Your fighters, their current overalls, and their builds are not changing. Your team, our rankings, and the way everyone is currently performing is completely untouched.

What would change is the potential YOU have as team manager to make your guys better. Kruze, if you, for example, capped every single one of your fighters at 81, they would ALL be better than half of the current top 10 fighters in each weight class.

Just because the cap goes up (or down) doesn't mean people's fighters are automatically there. You have to upgrade to get there, and you have to compete against other people upgrading.


-----


To the rest of your point, I am probably going to Hitler this one through, and here's why. I have talked 1-to-1 with 3 different members of this league who oppose this idea. Not a single one has given me a valid reason why this is a problem, other than obscure hypotheticals.


Let's look at the issues:

1) But I don't have a lot of As Bs and Cs and others do.
- There are 46 As Bs or Cs available and the draft is coming. Issue resolved.

2) But I like my guy. Now he gonna suck.
Is your guy currently maxed? If so, cool. That doesn't change. He is an 84 forever. If not, cool. Upgrade him to his 81 cap, and he is already better than 94% of the division and you made your guy a contender. Upgrade him correctly and fine-tune him, and he can/will beat and become the champion. Issue resolved.

3) This makes my team worse
No. Your team does not change at all. It's exactly the same. No upgrades are coming out of your fighters! Non-Issue. Resolved.

4) The list is just opinion.
Yes, the opinion of about 1000-2000 hardcore MMA fans. Not the opinion of a guy who has ordered every UFC PPV since 2007 and did not know who Krzysztof Soszynski was. All fighters are also given a rating when I make them. But that is my rating, based on my opinion. This brings in the opinions of a thousand others. Much more fair. Issue resolved.

5) But now teams have unfair advantage
Everyone (except Kruze) has 2-3 A's on their team right now. The draft could bring about 2-3 more B's, on a "shit team first" basis. There is the chance to "level" the cap "unfairness". But more to the point, is it fair that someone like GAP gets more points in a week than Byron does in a season? Every fighter comes in at a different overall based on real life, it is not an unreasonable extension that every fighter has a cap based on real life as well. Active people have an unfair advantage already. Not a new or unique issue to this suggestion. Moot.

6) There no level playing field now
Explain this one, since anyone in the league right now can cap out an 81 and make them a champion. Further, if you post more, you get more points than everyone else. That is not level. Byron does not have level internet with GAP. They do not have level point production. That is a much bigger game-changer than tweaking the peaks at which the fighters on those teams can reach.

7) 85s will beat everyone and 81s will suck
This has been proven incorrect over and over again here. Fedor is 85 right now. Fedor has lost to 2 people this season. No one in the league is, or ever has been, as high as Fedor. Similarly, Carlos Condit is rated 77, and is currently ranked #3 in our league.

8) Everyone should have an equal change to make their fighters great.
We have that now, and only a couple people have taken advantage of that. This will not change if this suggestion comes into effect. If you upgrade someone to Cap, and do it well, they will be great.

9) I get screwed by this.
I think only 2 people can say this. Kruze and Me. Kruze has 0 A's, but has been offered A fighters by myself and Bullies still has a "I will share the A's" thing going on (which I don't think he should do, but I will get into that later). But to devil's advocate Kruze's situation, he has 10 non-list male fighters, 0 of which are over 81. So being that in 12 seasons those 10 fighters have not even reached the 81 cap, let alone the current 84 cap, I do not feel there is anything to be in a huff about. At that rate, it will take that team another 10 seasons to get those fighters to 81 before they even reach the proposed cap. (ALso, you mentioned Gustafsson over and over again - Gustafsson would benefit from this, as his cap would be 83. You said you had a hard time trying to trade him, his value just went up. You're welcome). Furthermore, if you care so much about rating caps, there are 46 guys available at the draft that have higher caps. Go nuts.

Me, on the other hand, I volunteered to lower my currently capped fighters down to the new cap. If I do this, this means Shinya Aoki, Ben Askren, Joachim Hansen, Conor McGregor, and Cung Le would ALL have upgrades TAKEN OUT OF THEM. (related, but unrelated, I plan on trading half of those guys and if that happened, if they went to a new team, I would not bring their ratings down)

10) Still, 85s will be better than 81s.
Not if you upgrade them properly. Again, MMA is about action/counter-action. We see all the time here, and in real life, the "striker vs. grappler" scenario. If I have the best striker on ManMMA, and he is rated 85, even a fighter with maxed takedown defence can (and does) get taken down. Then, your 81 wrestler dominates my 85 striker, and wins. 85 is not high enough to fill in all the holes a maxed out fighter will still have.

11) But I'm still not convinced that 85s will be better than 81s
K, we established that for the past 6 seasons that is factually incorrect. But let's just go with it. The program has a magic bar called "Simulation Randomness". What that means is sometimes, random shit happens. This gives us the excitement of crazy Flash KOs (remember when Budd beat Cyborg?). There is no rating spread that will produce the same result 100% of the time.

12) Fuck you, bub.
Oh.

[xx - The Broad Street Bullies]

Why don't you fee I should share my A's? I have double or triple everyone else.

[The Sandmen]

Mar 3, 2015 16:29:58 GMT -5 xx - The Broad Street Bullies said:

Why don't you fee I should share my A's? I have double or triple everyone else.

13) Why don't you fee I should share my A's? I have double or triple everyone else.
Because there is absolutely no inherent advantage to having an A. Just like it has always been on this site, it's about how you upgrade, not about how high the cap is. Just because someone has an A doesn't mean they have a better team. Sakuraba is an A. He has been beaten by As, Bs, Cs, and Unrated guys left right and centre. The 'A' is nothing more than a potential-meter, and has no impact what so ever on how good a team is, or even how good it will be. I do not think you should feel guilted or in any way obligated to share the fighters you have acquired through auction and trade based on how POTENTIALLY good they could be, IF someone upgrades them.

If you WANT to trade your fighters, if that would make you happy, go nuts. But I don't agree with the "I have 6 guys rated A, I should share them" mindset. Being an A only means something on paper until those guys are maxed out. Even then, the meaning becomes 100% dependant on the HOW of their upgrading.

[The Sandmen]

Something else I should have added are maxed out fighters.

They break down like this:

3 - xx - Camp Cannon
3 - xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club
2 - xx - Team GAP
2 - xx - The Broad Street Bullies
2 - The Sandmen
2 - The Rocketmen
1 - The Mighty Ducks
1 - The West Coast Knockouts
0 - Ferocity
0 - Lord Byron's Conquistadors

I think, in many cases, that balances out the current A, B, and C situation as well (which, reminder, looks like this):

6A, 2C - Broad Street Bullies
2A, 2B - Camp Cannon
2A, 3B, 2C - Ferocity
2A, 3C - Lord Byron's Conquistadors
3B, 2C - Phoenix Fight Club
3A, 2B, 1C - Team GAP
2A, 2B, 1C - The Mighty Ducks
3A, 2B, 1C - The RocketMen
2A, 1B, 2C - The Sandmen
3A, 2B - West Coast Knockouts


So as much as not having As might seem unfair to xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club, he and Cannon lead the league in maxed out fighters, which is a far more notable advantage than having potential.

[xx - The Broad Street Bullies]

Wait, I only have 1 maxed fighter? I thought Couture, GSP, and Murphy were all capped.

[The Sandmen]

Mar 3, 2015 17:11:41 GMT -5 xx - The Broad Street Bullies said:

Wait, I only have 1 maxed fighter? I thought Couture, GSP, and Murphy were all capped.

APparently my master capped list is not updated (and I am not on the computer with the simulator to check). I cannot find anything on the site (so far) about Murphy being capped though. I thought she was, but I am not finding the post where I said she was officially capped. GSP updated, still looking for Murphy.