The Sandmen Trial

[The Sandmen]

We've reached a point where Phoenix's accusations about Sandmen cheating (and everything else) have become excessive and harmful to the league. They need to stop. So we've agreed to post this trial thread. From this point forward. Here, Phoenix will try to prove his claims are not libellous, and Sandmen can defend those claims in a clean, neat, and civil fashion.

In this thread, xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club will set out to prove his case to the jury (league).

Over the coarse of this thread (trial) he should set out to prove or clarify the following:

1) The Charge - specifically what Sandmen has allegedly done.

2) Evidence towards the "Actus reus" and "Mens rea" of the case.

2) "Means, Motive, and Opportunity"

3) Evidence to support the initial charge, as well as proof of means, motive, and opportunity.

He will be out to prove these things beyond a reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury (league)



But first, let's start with opening statements. xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club is up for the Prosecutions opening statements. We'll do that with our first posts then go from there and keep it clean and civil.

(The whole case does not need to be included in opening statements. We've all seen court room dramas. Just an opening statement will suffice).

[xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club]

This isn't something you can pull together in two seconds, nor do I have the time to go through everything right now and that's provided Sandman hasn't deleted or hidden threads to help his own case. There also needs to be specific and formal charges if we're going to do this properly, otherwise it's too vague and leaves too much open to interpretation.

Also... Who's the judge that's going to keep it fair and impartial? Sandman can't very well officiate over his own trial.

[The Mighty Ducks]

A few things on my perspective on this:

1. right off the bat, kruze is supporting that there is something negative toward sandman, and to prove his ability to not have to prove anything, he's now suggesting posts/threads have been deleted that put a negative connotation toward sandman.

2. this, unfortunately, is just another thread to allow a back and forth discussion about things that don't affect anyone else that further promote posting/earned points on behalf of the accuser, who has been nothing but a hindrance to the league lately. though, on a fair point, this site is basically the kruze show because shit like this is both tolerated and even promoted by members to encourage more of his public shenanigans.

All in all, he is an embarrassment to the league, and it's embarrassing for other members to be participating in something that is outright promoting his ridiculousness. I thought I signed up for an MMA simulation site. Apparently, I signed up for a Kruze-followship site.

[xx - The Broad Street Bullies]

If this is actually happening, then we need an unbiased judge and jury.

We have a total of 12 members, 2 of whom are the prosecution and defendant.

That leaves 10. xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club has had the most issues with Rocketmen, Byron, and Bulldozers. The Sandmen has had the most issues with Cannon and GAP. That leaves a list of 5 members.

They are:

The Mighty Ducks
xx - The Broad Street Bullies
Ferocity
xx - The Underdog Regime
The West Coast Knockouts

We need a judge to keep order and run based on standard court proceedings.
We also need a jury to place a final verdict based on evidence and no pre-formed opinions.

Only 1 judge
3 jury members (If there is a consensus, we can add more).

Pick from that list of 5. If one of you has a reason any of these 5 suggested members shouldn't be allowed to serve, or any of the 5 not listed should be allowed, please state so.

NOTE: For a member to be allowed on the jury or to be the judge, you must both agree to it, as to avoid any possible later argument that the verdict was pre-determined.

Post your suggested judge and jury here within 24 hours please.

[The Mighty Ducks]

how about have those five be the jury, and make rocketman the judge, because in recent discussions he's been open with kruze, and with this, he can't really weigh in, he just kind of handles the semantics of how it proceeds and the members are the jury, so that makes sense to me, and i think all members should be included. it's not right to have anyone be forced to not be able to participate.

[The Rocketmen]

I like this. I've been asking Kruze what he's specifically meant about certain problems he has that he brought up but haven't really heard the full scope of it, so I would definitely be interested in participating in some form. It's probably impossible for anyone to be unbiased because typically juries comprise of people who have no affiliation to the problem, and we're all on a site that revolves around it, so there's no way out of that.

But I am interested to see what Kruze has to say, and the explanations from both sides, and hopefully there is a peaceful resolution at the end of this. As they say, all roads lead to Rome. I'm optimistic that this will be a civil and open discussion.

[Ferocity]

I'm not worried about who is the judge, but I am willing to be on the jury if that's acceptable.

[The West Coast Knockouts]

What happens if Sandmen is found guilty ? He is the admin after all . Does he get docked 50 points ? Or even a 100?

[The Rocketmen]

I think that isn't something you can discuss before it starts. Once it's all laid out, the jury (hence why I also think full league involvement is required) needs to think about it together. I'd also like to be on the jury, as I don't think a judge really needs to do anything in this case. It's just one side and the other, and we'll follow a grid, and then the jury discusses it.

[xx - Former Bulldozers]

I can be the judge. I've had my fair share of fights and good times with both Kruze and Justin.

[The Rocketmen]

Again, a judge doesn't matter for anything in this case. We know the progress of how things need to be presented. The jury discusses with each other the matters. The judge serves no purpose.

[xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club]

Sept 20, 2015 21:52:00 GMT -5 The Rocketmen said:

Again, a judge doesn't matter for anything in this case. We know the progress of how things need to be presented. The jury discusses with each other the matters. The judge serves no purpose.

A judge is very pertinent in this case to stick to the facts and the topic at hand, which both Justin and I are both guilty of straying from in heated discussions to steer away from the topic.

We also don't have clear cut charges of anything; "The Charge - specifically what Sandmen has allegedly done", which leaves no focus to the proceedings at all, and gives too much latitude in terms of evidence presented when "what Sandman has done" could be simply him giving away a fighter or points, which wasn't the idea behind this forum at all.

I'd also like to have The Mighty Ducks's first post stricken from the record. This is not meant to be a popularity contest nor am I the one that's "on trial" here either.

[xx - Former Bulldozers]

xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club The Sandmen are both of you ok with me being the judge?

[The Sandmen]

The judge and jury both need to be active (or dedicated) enough to read essay after essay. Both from Kruze and from myself.

I predict if this goes forward...there will be a lot of essays.

So those volunteering to be judges or jury members, please keep that in mind.

[The Sandmen]

Sept 20, 2015 22:06:27 GMT -5 xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club said:

We also don't have clear cut charges of anything; "The Charge - specifically what Sandmen has allegedly done", which leaves no focus to the proceedings at all, and gives too much latitude in terms of evidence presented when "what Sandman has done" could be simply him giving away a fighter or points, which wasn't the idea behind this forum at all.

This is part of your job as the prosecution - succinct-ify and clarify what exactly you are accusing me of during the trial (ideally in your opening statements, as is typically the case in trials)