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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 21, 2015 2:34:39 GMT -5
I'm going to move this to announcements once the draft is done. But for now, it has a home here, in official polls, despite not being an official poll at this time.
Prologue
When I conceived and built ManMMA, the goal was always for the premise to be the best MMA fighters fighting each other in a fantasy-style league. Since I did not want to limit anyone (and was a ManMMA noob at the time), I said people could draft anyone who had a verifiable professional MMA fight. To this day, I personally feel that was the biggest error I have made - not putting a restriction on who people could draft.
The Restriction Cometh
Here comes the restriction. Starting now (and for the time being), you may draft anyone who has had a verifiable MMA fight, but they must have at least 1 professional win. I don't think this is a big deal, and I don't even think it would have affected anyone in the league. But for now, it keeps out certain...problem fighters that people have been threatening to draft just to annoy me (Like Bam Bam fucking Bigelow - It's an MMA site, people, not a WWE site).
More Input Wanted!
I want to know how you people honestly feel about the league's landscape and where the fun-line ends for you. I mean, this is an MMA site, so for me I am happy as long as legit MMA guys are here (i.e. NOT Bam Bam fucking Bigelow). But we have a lot of project fighters here, and have for some time. We had guys like Erik Koch, Diego Nunes, Paul Sass, and even Mostapha Al-Turk. My question is does this matter to you? Does it ruin the fun of the site for you if someone like Paul Sass is beating someone like BJ Penn? Or if someone like Mostapha Al-Turk was our Heavyweight Champion, after knocking out Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez, or Randy Couture?
Please be honest and let's not spend our time finger-pointing in this thread. I'm interested in opinions, rather than arguments. In light of that, if you are more comfortable PMing me your reply, rather then posting it publicly, that's fine. I would just like to get an idea of where the league as a whole stands, and where the line exists for you personally, since I know we all have a different line on this issue.
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Dec 21, 2015 2:49:17 GMT -5
then maybe no gina cranao or ben askren? sandmen! just mad i picked alberto del rio... also did u not make this whpole nazi realism rule of a b c fighters 4 reealism so ythere no real issue here other than u venting due to my pick...
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Dec 21, 2015 3:04:10 GMT -5
if it was sandmen way then no one would ever beat anderson silva even tho he sucks 2 ppl who can wrestle him irl and gina carano era of when she fought nobodys and was just a pretty face and no one would beat her either..
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Ferocity
Black Belt (5th Degree)
Posts: 3,455
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Post by Ferocity on Dec 21, 2015 19:50:42 GMT -5
we need people who can type in the English language (or any other language really) to explain all of Cannon's comments... I read and then think, wait... what did he just say?
So... I think Cannon thinks there should be no restrictions.
I think there should be restrictions (i.e. maybe being able to be found on some kind of official MMA site) because we don't need real nobodies on here, but I don't mind if weaker fighters do become good on here. For example, many of the women are relitively unknown, but can become champs on here and that is a good thing.
I also think it's important that we have MMA fighters, not random street thugs, wrestlers, random Olympians ect, because MMA really is different- it's the mix of skills that makes the magic. I would be signifigantly less interested in a site like the earliest MMMA where is just like 'hmmm.... let's see if a sumo wrestler will beat a boxer'.
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Post by Lord Byron's Conquistadors on Dec 22, 2015 3:01:35 GMT -5
for me Id say either 5-10 big league fights or 7 pro wins. pick one that woks for you. big league be pride ufc invicta strikeforce wec wsof one deep jewel bellator. maybe half those numbers for women since women are noobs. everyone else fuck em we don need no 1 fight wonders or nothin.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 23, 2015 13:42:44 GMT -5
I understand the need for a restriction, and not wanting to be over run with WWE guys or pro wrestlers, but, we have had some crossover guys that have had varying degrees of success in both; Dan Severn, Tank Abbott, Ken Shamrock, Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, Kazushi Sakuraba, Sean O'Haire, Daniel Puder, Dave Bautista, Masakatsu Funaki (NJPW)... Hell, Josh Barnett & Bob Sapp have wrestled fo NJPW too... and yes, even Alberto "Del Rio" Rodriguez. lol So, based on that... if they've only had one fight ever, and they lost, or all MMA losses, I can see them not being here. That's fine. But, at the same time, I also like the aspect of this that it is still a fantasy league and the thought that we can have our favorite fighters, whether they champions IRL or not, is appealing too. I mean, I was joking at this draft about taking Ivy Calvin from Storage Wars or my friend Erik Vigil because Del Rio got drafted, and while I wouldn't touch Calvin cuz he had one fight ever and it'd be a joke, there is a certain appeal about having someone you actually know on your team, but I honestly wouldn't do it myself unless I had absolutely no other project fighters on the go, which won't be for a LOOOONG time, if ever, but atleast Erik had, what looked like, somewhat of a promising future in MMA before he ripped up the ligaments and broke his arm GnPing a guy in his last fight.  lol So, that being said though, the one win rule is completely acceptable for now until we start running out of fighters again. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 23, 2015 14:02:19 GMT -5
I'm more inclined to go Byron's route, to be honest. Since any time something gets stupid, I get told "But the rules say I can," I am probably going to do something along Byron's line to really buff up the rules, so I don't have to deal with bullshit picks, drafts, or threats. Having guys like Erik Vigil on ManMMA (outside of ML) would be a waste of my time, and definitely, irrevocably harm my interest in ManMMA. Regardless of record, if you have never even fought in the same league as MINOR leaguers, you certainly have no place in a fantasy real built around the best of all time. Since we only have 12 teams and now a 25-fighter roster limit, I don't foresee us "running out of fighters" thus really ever necessitating fighters of the Erik Vigil/Ivy Calvin calibre.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 23, 2015 14:32:19 GMT -5
I'm more inclined to go Byron's route, to be honest. Since any time something gets stupid, I get told "But the rules say I can," I am probably going to do something along Byron's line to really buff up the rules, so I don't have to deal with bullshit picks, drafts, or threats. Having guys like Erik Vigil on ManMMA (outside of ML) would be a waste of my time, and definitely, irrevocably harm my interest in ManMMA. Regardless of record, if you have never even fought in the same league as MINOR leaguers, you certainly have no place in a fantasy real built around the best of all time. Since we only have 12 teams and now a 25-fighter roster limit, I don't foresee us "running out of fighters" thus really ever necessitating fighters of the Erik Vigil/Ivy Calvin calibre. Well, stop feeling threatened then; no one is threatening you... You asked for feedback and opinions. I gave mine, and I said there was very little chance of me taking Vigil ever anyways. lol I'd probably pick up Big Dave off the FA list again long before I'd ever even consider drafting Vigil, in addition to most of the other guys I mentioned above that aren't in ManMMA yet, save for Puder... and even then, I currently have better HWs than Puder, who I've always liked yet still haven't taken either man. And really, as much of a laugh that it is that Del Rio is here, his MMA career wasn't really all that bad when you consider that he was fighting in Deep & Pride for most of it. Thing is that while your interest in ManMMA is very important Justin, so too is the interest of all the members as well. And, no offense, but with all the other crap you've been pulling lately, up to and including the BS lifting/raising of the cap on the RL champions in our women's divisions, that really only benefits you and no one else at the moment, and will actually do more harm than good to the women's divisions at this juncture, I really do think you need to just cool off with all your restrictions and rule changes for a bit, especially when, like the women's cap, there's no immediate problem that needs to be addressed. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 23, 2015 16:03:21 GMT -5
I really do think you need to just cool off with all your restrictions and rule changes for a bit, especially when, like the women's cap, there's no immediate problem that needs to be addressed. You and Cannon keep pushing things and saying, "Well, there's no rule otherwise", so unfortunately, you brought these restrictions on yourselves, lol. Next time think more carefully before trying to cite the rules at me to no end. If there's a problem, and you keep harking at me that there is no rule against it, then you bet your ass one will be coming. Best keep that in mind when you're on these troll sessions, or whatever else you think you are accomplishing. Sort version - I'll likely be making a rule to add additional restrictions to who can compete in ManMMA so we don't have guys like Fedor on FA and guys like Jeremy Gereldini and Bob Smith reigning as ManMMA champions. That is not a site I will be a part of, lol. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 23, 2015 16:29:34 GMT -5
Rules aside, regardless of what we come up with...I might let CM Punk in regardless, since there has been so much ManMMA hype around him since before he even signed with the UFC.  Time will tell. |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 23, 2015 19:25:22 GMT -5
I really do think you need to just cool off with all your restrictions and rule changes for a bit, especially when, like the women's cap, there's no immediate problem that needs to be addressed. You and Cannon keep pushing things and saying, "Well, there's no rule otherwise", so unfortunately, you brought these restrictions on yourselves, lol. Next time think more carefully before trying to cite the rules at me to no end. If there's a problem, and you keep harking at me that there is no rule against it, then you bet your ass one will be coming. Best keep that in mind when you're on these troll sessions, or whatever else you think you are accomplishing. Sort version - I'll likely be making a rule to add additional restrictions to who can compete in ManMMA so we don't have guys like Fedor on FA and guys like Jeremy Gereldini and Bob Smith reigning as ManMMA champions. That is not a site I will be a part of, lol. Dude, I don't know how many times now I've had to tell you that "Rules state: ______" and you just simply ignore it, bend it break it or change it to suit yourself, not really for anyone else, and pulling your little power trips "cuz I can". I can only remember one time that you've actually listened to me and didn't do that. Then you pull this crap, claiming that we've said: "Well, there's no rule against it.", but atleast we actually follow the rules you've set out, despite any protests we might have to them, whereas you just simply change them if they restrict you on something that you want to do. We don't get that ability... Hell, I wasn't even afforded that ability when I was staff, yet you do it constantly, and carte blanche, with folks somehow believing you're actually doing it for them, which is only usually ever about 20% truth and 80% bullshit. lol And anytime we call you on breaking any rules or a set precedent, even when asked if there's a problem, we're met with ridicule and rhetoric all because we had the "audacity" to disagree with you or, as you seem to view it, "defy you", and then we're met with this smug, passive-aggressive, arrogant prick, "I holier than thou" attitude of yours that you put on when someone disagrees with you. I mean, look no further than the thread where you wanted the SF title to be defended at the GP and nearly everyone said no to that. What did you do there? lol And you were also going to do it anyways if Johnson had retained the belt, even though virtually no one wanted it. Yah, that's totally the opposite of anything Cannon or I ever do...  Give me a break... and get over yourself already. lol Even the "Great & Powerful Wizard of Oz" (meaning you) isn't infallible, nor is everyone going to agree with you all the time man... and that thread was a true testament to what you're really like when you don't get your way. "Well, I'm just going to do it anyways. Screw you guys.". It's really no different than Cannon or I saying "Well, there's no rule against it.". That being said, we don't really have any Fedors on the FA list right now; not in great enough numbers to warrant this type of restriction... not yet anyways. I will agree that we don't want the league over run with all scrubs, BUT I also know that most everyone on this site is savvy enough with MMA that, that really won't happen. You get the odd guy like Cannon that'll take a troll-ish pick like Del Rio, but if folks genuinely want the fighter and are willing to accept that they're "scrub" fighter is going to be a "jobber" for a considerable amount of time before they're any good... I think that's they're decision to make, not yours. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 23, 2015 19:53:24 GMT -5
Dude, I don't know how many times now I've had to tell you that "Rules state: ______" Exactly my point. Hence, clearer, stricter rules. Congrats. You win! |
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Post by The Sandmen on Dec 23, 2015 20:02:37 GMT -5
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Dec 23, 2015 20:33:27 GMT -5
Dude, I don't know how many times now I've had to tell you that "Rules state: ______" Exactly my point. Hence, clearer, stricter rules. Congrats. You win! No, what that means is YOU should adhere to your own rules and precedents that you've set yourself instead of changing them to suit your own purposes, not just taking what you want and quoting anything at random to attempt to make you point. It's not about winning or losing here Justin... usually it never is for me. I dunno what your problem is with that, but the fact is that for as much as any of us find "loopholes" in your rules, you change, bend & break just as many of them... and you bribe others with incentives to get your way. I'm sorry it pisses you off that bribing me doesn't always work man... Maybe try having some integrity in your decisions you make instead of what you have been doing for yourself, and maybe I'd actually be more inclined to "respect your authority" (Cartman). But to this point you've really done nothing to earn any respect in that regard. None. ANYWAYS, Kruze had his typical "everything you say, suggest, or do is out to get me" speech, (congrats, no one saw that coming (eyeroll) ), so now I am interested in where OTHER PEOPLE draw the realism line. Nope. Anyone that actually reads what I wrote will see that it wasn't an "everything you say, or do is out to get me" speech. It had nothing to do with that at at all cuz no one's out to get me here. You called me/Cannon out on something and I pointed out that you do virtually the same thing from your position of "authority. That's it. |
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Post by The Rocketmen on Dec 23, 2015 21:33:00 GMT -5
I want real fight legends, mostly UFC and Pride, but I get how some people get excited by a few Bellator fighters, or even Invicta and Strikeforce (I, myself, have Chandler who I watched in person, but I added him because he legitimately had a belt in Bellator at the time, and I expected him to make the jump to the UFC).
I lose significant interest in seeing wrestlers added and guys that are basically fighting in your hometown and have a record online so hey, let's build him up over 7 seasons and make him fight GSP, Silva, etc. IT's ridiculous, and not fun, especially if they win (like Douglas fucking Lima).
I was totally fine with it when we had the Manager's League fighters, but that came and went many a time, and is a hassle and people stopped caring, etc. If you want those fighters, then sim the manager's league. Otherwise, go and buy the WWE games, and make your people and enjoy that shit there.
It doesn't belong here.
Picture someone new looking at joining the site who actually loves MMA. Now imagine that you (or they) join this site, and the champion is HHH or the Undertaker or whoever the hell else. And then ask yourself... do you really want to participate in that nonsense?
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x8 
lol 
Time will tell.
Give me a break... and get over yourself already. lol Even the "Great & Powerful Wizard of Oz" (meaning you) isn't infallible, nor is everyone going to agree with you all the time man... and that thread was a true testament to what you're really like when you don't get your way. "Well, I'm just going to do it anyways. Screw you guys.". It's really no different than Cannon or I saying "Well, there's no rule against it.".
