|
|
Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 30, 2016 18:43:29 GMT -5
Problem 1So really this isn't a problem at all other than it makes you uncomfortable. It's not like it's going to be an all the time thing. It's one fight, not all women vs. men only. Problem 2So what? Many fighters have lower caps or aren't ranked as high as other fighters. Are you going to suddenly make it so that only A & B ranked fighters can be eligible to challenge for the SuperFight belt now? It makes no difference whether a fighter is capped or not capped or what they're ranked or where they're cap is. You keep claiming that anybody can beat anybody, at any time, but when it comes right down to it, you won't allow it to happen. So again... Not even a problem. Problem 3What do numbers have to do with anything? It's only one fighter fighting one fight at one time. It's not taking them out of their out of their weight class unless they win, but it's no different than us missing Bas out of the HW division for now. Not every fighter has a contender ranking, nor are they always vying for a title or even close... So once again... Not even a problem. Problem 4We have a number of worthy contenders in the women's divisions that aren't always up for a title as well or even in the tournaments all the time. 1) Not if a woman wins. That's the point here, isn't it? If she has no hope in hell of winning, what's the point of the challenge? 2) Other fighters are not in divisions with only 20 fighters and desperate need for legit competition. 3) We have 2 actual, legit FW title contenders, and a couple long shots. If one of the actual contenders is tied up with the SuperFight belt, then basically we're re-enforcing the problem we have with the womens division we already have - there are so few legit threats to the title at present. With Bas missing from HW, we still have Brock, Overeem, Couture, Johnson, Cain, Coleman, Lashley, Jones, Rampage, Liddell, Goodridge - all very good, developed fighters. We do not have such a list for all of the women combined, let alone just one weight class. 4) Flat-out incorrect. I book this shit, so I can assure you, booking the women in meaningful tournament or even non-tournament fights is hard as fuck right now. Get upgrading your women, people! hance why i said you should apply rules to the other teams to upgrade thier woman we got gap here taking point oit his men n re wasting points elsewhere back into em, also phx has a point if what u say anyone could beat anyone but woman have no chance at all then your admitting ur abc systems is flawed and basically a popularity contest? |
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 30, 2016 19:26:04 GMT -5
hance why i said you should apply rules to the other teams to upgrade thier woman we got gap here taking point oit his men n re wasting points elsewhere back into em, also phx has a point if what u say anyone could beat anyone but woman have no chance at all then your admitting ur abc systems is flawed and basically a popularity contest? I did not say women have no chance; they absolutely do. The women's cap is where Anthony Johnson is right now, and he held the SuperFight belt. But that's part of the problem (the "he" vs. "her" part) and also the other half of the problem as well. Either the best women (who should be fighting for the womens belts) will be fucking around in the SuperFight division instead of fighting for their own belt, or you will have scrub-women (who could be as low as 20 overalls lower than the SuperFight champion) challenging. The SuperFight belt is a legitimate belt. You get points for winning it. It should be seen and treated as such. Similarly, our women's divisions are under-staffed since we split the female weight classes. I think it has made both divisions more exciting, but the consequence is both weight classes are now very shallow. I think you can see that when you look at the top 15. Pending flukes, most people outside of the top 8 don't currently have a shot in hell of taking a belt any time soon. The problem is not a one-sentence "But you said ___". The problem is a series of interconnected issues that require long-term work by members, not an overnight rule change by staff. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 30, 2016 19:29:28 GMT -5
hance why i said you should apply rules to the other teams to upgrade thier woman we got gap here taking point oit his men n re wasting points elsewhere back into em, also phx has a point if what u say anyone could beat anyone but woman have no chance at all then your admitting ur abc systems is flawed and basically a popularity contest? I did not say women have no chance; they absolutely do. The women's cap is where Anthony Johnson is right now, and he held the SuperFight belt. But that's part of the problem (the "he" vs. "her" part) and also the other half of the problem as well. Either the best women (who should be fighting for the womens belts) will be fucking around in the SuperFight division instead of fighting for their own belt, or you will have scrub-women (who could be as low as 20 overalls lower than the SuperFight champion) challenging. The SuperFight belt is a legitimate belt. You get points for winning it. It should be seen and treated as such. Similarly, our women's divisions are under-staffed since we split the female weight classes. I think it has made both divisions more exciting, but the consequence is both weight classes are now very shallow. I think you can see that when you look at the top 15. Pending flukes, most people outside of the top 8 don't currently have a shot in hell of taking a belt any time soon. The problem is not a one-sentence "But you said ___". The problem is a series of interconnected issues that require long-term work by members, not an overnight rule change by staff. then make it so onlu capped woman can challenge like i wouldnt mind seeing holly win it but won happen but fun trying n if she did win it challenge with jojo calderwood as thier in 2 diff weight classes and id never get to see em fight ever |
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 30, 2016 19:48:28 GMT -5
as thier in 2 diff weight classes and id never get to see em fight ever The entire point of the site is making fantasy fights happen. If you want to see them fight, toss something up in the challenges and I'll happily make that fight for the next convenient event. I cannot stress enough how much catchweight challenges make booking and ManMMA funner. Even if its inter-team challenges like that. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 30, 2016 19:57:55 GMT -5
as thier in 2 diff weight classes and id never get to see em fight ever The entire point of the site is making fantasy fights happen. If you want to see them fight, toss something up in the challenges and I'll happily make that fight for the next convenient event. I cannot stress enough how much catchweight challenges make booking and ManMMA funner. Even if its inter-team challenges like that. jojo has to fight 4 belt next so that wouldn't happen for awhile |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 31, 2016 10:11:30 GMT -5
Problem 1So really this isn't a problem at all other than it makes you uncomfortable. It's not like it's going to be an all the time thing. It's one fight, not all women vs. men only. Problem 2So what? Many fighters have lower caps or aren't ranked as high as other fighters. Are you going to suddenly make it so that only A & B ranked fighters can be eligible to challenge for the SuperFight belt now? It makes no difference whether a fighter is capped or not capped or what they're ranked or where they're cap is. You keep claiming that anybody can beat anybody, at any time, but when it comes right down to it, you won't allow it to happen. So again... Not even a problem. Problem 3What do numbers have to do with anything? It's only one fighter fighting one fight at one time. It's not taking them out of their out of their weight class unless they win, but it's no different than us missing Bas out of the HW division for now. Not every fighter has a contender ranking, nor are they always vying for a title or even close... So once again... Not even a problem. Problem 4We have a number of worthy contenders in the women's divisions that aren't always up for a title as well or even in the tournaments all the time. 1) Not if a woman wins. That's the point here, isn't it? If she has no hope in hell of winning, what's the point of the challenge? 2) Other fighters are not in divisions with only 20 fighters and desperate need for legit competition. 3) We have 2 actual, legit FW title contenders, and a couple long shots. If one of the actual contenders is tied up with the SuperFight belt, then basically we're re-enforcing the problem we have with the womens division we already have - there are so few legit threats to the title at present. With Bas missing from HW, we still have Brock, Overeem, Couture, Johnson, Cain, Coleman, Lashley, Jones, Rampage, Liddell, Goodridge - all very good, developed fighters. We do not have such a list for all of the women combined, let alone just one weight class. 4) Flat-out incorrect. I book this shit, so I can assure you, booking the women in meaningful tournament or even non-tournament fights is hard as fuck right now. Get upgrading your women, people! 1) As Cannon alluded to... if anyone can beat anyone, then a woman has just as much opportunity as a man to win that title... otherwise, he's actually right... that makes the A-B-C ranking system a complete sham. 2 & 3) It's no different in the other divisions in terms of top contenders. You still have basically the same ratio of dominant champions in each division to the rest of the division as you do in the two women's divisions. Every division has their top fighters that pass around the belt or are always contending, then there's the rest of the division. You're making up issues and problems that don't exist at this point... because, again, you just simply don't want to do it. There's enough contenders to go around in each division and using one division that's the newest division we have, isn't a litmus paper for anything when we had 2-3 top contenders passing the belt around when the women were consolidated into one division. Also, if D'Alelio doesn't win this next title shot she's got coming up at BW, she'll be dropping to FW, adding another contender to that division. So trying to say that there aren't enough contenders is complete rubbish. 4) Booking's difficult anyways, regardless of division, because, again, we still have the same sort of ratio of top contenders to non-contenders in each division. The numbers may not be the exact same, but the ratio is more or less the same. Honestly dude... If you're just going to make up any and every excuse under the sun not to do it just because you don't want to, stop wasting our time in debating it if it's just not going to happen period. Just say you don't want to do it and move on instead of making another pointless thread and creating another pointless debate that, at the end of the day, isn't going to happen because you don't want to do it. |
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 10:21:50 GMT -5
The more you talk about me "making up excuses" the more you continue to stress how ignorant you really are to everything I do with this site. Book this site for a season and you will then truly see and feel the difference in the men and women's divisions. All you know about it is what I tell you. When you actually have to sit and match-make the divisions, only then can you really see how shallow the women are compared to the men. Especially HWs.
I am not opposed to changes that make sense. But when I say, "OKay guys, make this make sense" and all you guys do is tell me things that are factually incorrect (like the womens divisions are as deep and upgraded as the men) or that you know what booking is like (lmfao), then we're not getting anywhere.
The problems I outlined exist. That's just a fact. You can solve them in a way that makes things better, or you can dispute them. Disputing them doesn't make them go away. Fixing them, does. So, if you want women fighting for the SuperFight belt, fix some of these problems, and we'll go from there. Cannon is on the right track - he has suggested working on FiD again, which will help diversify upgrades and get people back into upgrading, especially their women. I do not disagree and will try to do that soon.
But what you are doing here, just saying, "No, I disagree" to issues you know nothing about (like the real world of ManMMA match-making, which you have never done), then we won't be getting very far.
|
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 31, 2016 11:32:33 GMT -5
The more you talk about me "making up excuses" the more you continue to stress how ignorant you really are to everything I do with this site. Book this site for a season and you will then truly see and feel the difference in the men and women's divisions. All you know about it is what I tell you. When you actually have to sit and match-make the divisions, only then can you really see how shallow the women are compared to the men. Especially HWs. Stress our ignorance all you want... but if we are all ignorant, which is doubtful, you make us that way with your lack of information and believe we're not intelligent enough to figure it out on our own. Which makes it easy for you to say anything you want, and claim we're ignorant, whether it's fact or not, and gives you a reasoning in your own mind to say that we just don't know, but with the comprehensive lists and spreadsheets on the fighters, that I know you have, it makes a complicated process much easier than you make it sound. You find one little sliver of truth to make your argument, in this case it's the number of women in the league, which is going to be lower than the men's divisions regardless, and expand it into something that sounds plausible, but, at the end of the day, it makes no real difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things because one fight or one fighter missing out of any division (if they win the SF title) doesn't make any difference at all. You also have a penchant to overthink and over-complicate things that really aren't that complicated at all. I am not opposed to changes that make sense. But when I say, "OKay guys, make this make sense" and all you guys do is tell me things that are factually incorrect (like the womens divisions are as deep and upgraded as the men) or that you know what booking is like (lmfao), then we're not getting anywhere. The problems I outlined exist. That's just a fact. You can solve them in a way that makes things better, or you can dispute them. Disputing them doesn't make them go away. Fixing them, does. So, if you want women fighting for the SuperFight belt, fix some of these problems, and we'll go from there. Cannon is on the right track - he has suggested working on FiD again, which will help diversify upgrades and get people back into upgrading, especially their women. I do not disagree and will try to do that soon. But what you are doing here, just saying, "No, I disagree" to issues you know nothing about (like the real world of ManMMA match-making, which you have never done), then we won't be getting very far. The problems outlined do not really exist. They only "exist" because you claim they exist, but the reality is that they don't. Cuz honestly, if you were really as open to change as you claim to be, then you wouldn't constantly be spending your time either finding ways to oppose ideas you didn't come up with yourself or making them into your own bastardized version of what the idea initially was and actually help come up with solutions to these problems you're creating instead of saying "Here, you guys find a solution to this fictitious problem I've creating so I can shut it down." cuz it's a trap... There is no solution when there is no problem and at that point you can simply say that any suggestion doesn't work then when you get called on it, you turn to threats, or what you perceive as a threat... in this case, re-instating FiD, but with the way folks haven't been letting their points stack up over the limit, like they have been lately, I'd be fine with that. It doesn't change how or who I upgrade unless I have a fighter that's in dire straits and needs the boost to keep them on my team. For me, FiD wouldn't diversify my upgrades in the sense you're trying to claim it would... it might for other folks, but again, the "shallow" women's divisions, which aren't as shallow on ratio with the other divisions as you're claiming, are only smaller in terms of numbers since there are less women fighters in the world than men; it doesn't make them less deep with contenders than the other division on a fighter for fighter ratio... it just doesn't. So like I said, if you don't want to do it, just say so already and move on... instead of giving false hope that this could actually happen when you have no intention on do it at all and will just keep coming up with reasons not to. Stop wasting our time... |
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 11:35:43 GMT -5
Who is "us"? You are the only person who tells me I am wrong about things that come down to match-making (like booking options for title tournaments and depth of divisions.
|
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 31, 2016 11:50:31 GMT -5
Who is "us"? You are the only person who tells me I am wrong about things that come down to match-making (like booking options for title tournaments and depth of divisions. I say "us" because anyone with half a brain on this site could figure out how it all works if they took the time. I also say "us" because of your "All you know about it is what I tell you." comment because it's not just me that's in that category. |
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 11:51:33 GMT -5
Book a season of ManMMA with the current ManMMA roster, then we'll talk.  |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 31, 2016 12:03:00 GMT -5
Book a season of ManMMA with the current ManMMA roster, then we'll talk. Hey, if I had all your spreadsheets and information you have, I'd do it. I've offered to do it in the past... your own paranoia prevents that. So we'll never talk about that, cuz it'll never happen. |
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 12:18:15 GMT -5
I share my spreadsheets with whoever wants them - those aren't secret. Any time, any place my good man  |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 31, 2016 12:40:09 GMT -5
I share my spreadsheets with whoever wants them - those aren't secret. Any time, any place my good man Yes, but the fighters stats and overalls are not given out... which is what would ultimately be needed in order for me to sim a season accurately... and you won't give those to anybody, my good man. |
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 12:49:35 GMT -5
Nobody said you would be simming, lol. Although, since you brought that up, I did offer you ManMMA as a whole about 2 years ago. You declined because of the work involved.
But again, what I said all had to do with booking. Every single piece of information I use for booking is readily available to anyone who wants to see it. As I said, once you book a season, then you'll understand.
|
|
x8 
