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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 31, 2016 13:13:37 GMT -5
Nobody said you would be simming, lol. Although, since you brought that up, I did offer you ManMMA as a whole about 2 years ago. You declined because of the work involved. But again, what I said all had to do with booking. Every single piece of information I use for booking is readily available to anyone who wants to see it. As I said, once you book a season, then you'll understand. No, I declined because I wasn't in a position to take it over at that time, not because of involved because that's inherent of any sim site... I wasn't able to do it at that time. Period. That's great that the booking information is available, but the fact is, unless the variables of wins/losses comes into play, you can't book shit all because that information is constantly changing, and that goes hand in hand with the actual fighters stats and overalls along with the wins and losses. It's all one package... you can't accurately book a season unless you have all the variables. So again, it's a trap... this is just another case of you giving a only sliver of truth to make a point, rather than the whole truth and making it concretely accurate. Because in order to book with any accuracy, you'd have to be simming the season too. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 13:16:13 GMT -5
Then you should email Justin from 4 years ago, since I have been booking ManMMA independent of the sim program for 4 years now. I only access the program when simming. For booking, all I use is Fight History, 1 notepad document, 1 Excel document, and 1 Word document. With those, I (and anyone else) can book ManMMA. But, you know, it's an epic amount of work, so I can see why you would back down now that the opportunity to put your money where your mouth is has been presented to you.  |
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Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 13:17:40 GMT -5
you can't book shit all because that information is constantly changing, and that goes hand in hand with the actual fighters stats and overalls along with the wins and losses. Then you should email Justin from 4 years ago and let him know, since I have been booking ManMMA independent of the sim program for 4 years now. I only access the program when simming. For booking, all I use is the posted Fight History, 1 notepad document, 1 Excel document, and 1 Word document. With those, I (or anyone else) can book ManMMA. But, you know, it's an epic amount of work, so I can see why you would back down now that the opportunity to put your money where your mouth is has been presented to you.  |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 31, 2016 13:40:37 GMT -5
you can't book shit all because that information is constantly changing, and that goes hand in hand with the actual fighters stats and overalls along with the wins and losses. Then you should email Justin from 4 years ago and let him know, since I have been booking ManMMA independent of the sim program for 4 years now. I only access the program when simming. For booking, all I use is the posted Fight History, 1 notepad document, 1 Excel document, and 1 Word document. With those, I (or anyone else) can book ManMMA. But, you know, it's an epic amount of work, so I can see why you would back down now that the opportunity to put your money where your mouth is has been presented to you. That still doesn't change fighters attributes dictating how good or bad they are or their wins and losses, which is what is also kept track of on the spreadsheets and your notes. You can book at the bare minimum, but not with any accuracy. Also, what your asking is an epic amount of work. It's not booking one card at a time, like you do right now... you want an entire season's worth of bookings in one shot, which also is inaccurate. It's not about putting my money where my mouth is cuz I could book no problem... my problem with it is the integrity and accuracy of it being tainted because in order to book properly, you need wins & losses records along with everything else in order to perpetually be consistent in fighter rotation as well. It's not only one component that encompasses all like you're trying to lead everyone to believe here. Again... Trap. I do all that and you'll find holes in that too because of the inaccuracies I'd have, that just highlighted here... and so the circle goes. You can't do one effectively without the other... you know this or you wouldn't be trying to challenge me to do what's virtually impossible to do, with any integrity, with only the Fight History, a notepad doc, a spreadsheet and a word document, all of which are perpetually changing with every card... which means I'd have to be simming the cards to be accurate with my bookings. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 13:45:23 GMT -5
I never said one shot.
Also you keep talking about wins-losses. All of that is in the spreadsheet. Wins, losses, win STREAKS, wins/losses this season, last event fought, FiD status, etc.
Everything anyone needs to book is in there.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 31, 2016 14:19:42 GMT -5
I never said one shot. Also you keep talking about wins-losses. All of that is in the spreadsheet. Wins, losses, win STREAKS, wins/losses this season, last event fought, FiD status, etc. Everything anyone needs to book is in there. Yes, but you can book maybe only 3 cards ahead before that information becomes obsolete because it changes with every card. The booking itself isn't the difficult part... Anyone can throw a card together without any of that information. It's keeping track of who's due for a fight, who's eligible for tournaments and what the best matchups are going to be otherwise. All of that comes down to wins & losses and how good or bad a fighter is or is doing (FiD), which is where the attributes and the actual simming of the cards comes into play. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 14:42:32 GMT -5
Exactly. Which is where (surprise) the DEPTH OF THE DIVISION comes into play. Hence the "Sim a full season, THEN you will see what I am talking about". As you said, anyone can put together a card. That is the short-sighted part. That is what you are arguing here though. Put this fight together. WHat I am telling you (and what you just agreed to) is that there is more to it than just one card (or one fight), particularly when a division has a whole season that needs booking. Thus, women are needed in their division, and the divisions are too shallow to have quality fighters leave for other titles.
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Post by The Rocketmen on Mar 31, 2016 14:49:37 GMT -5
Easiest way to look at it:
2 women's divisions with minimal amount of fighters.
3 men's divisions with a shitload of fighters.
Case closed?
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 31, 2016 15:28:51 GMT -5
Exactly. Which is where (surprise) the DEPTH OF THE DIVISION comes into play. Hence the "Sim a full season, THEN you will see what I am talking about". As you said, anyone can put together a card. That is the short-sighted part. That is what you are arguing here though. Put this fight together. WHat I am telling you (and what you just agreed to) is that there is more to it than just one card (or one fight), particularly when a division has a whole season that needs booking. Thus, women are needed in their division, and the divisions are too shallow to have quality fighters leave for other titles. No, that's not what I'm arguing here at all, though you'll try to point out that's what I'm arguing, because that is the short-sighted part. I never once said that throwing together a card was all you do, even though you've made it sound as though that's what I was saying... far from it. But I do disagree with you that one fight throws a wrench into everything. With the amount that folks actually use the SF challenge, the one or two fights that any woman would have would be negligible and hardly a dip, in either of the women's divisions. There's enough depth that one fighter can have a challenge fight without it hurting the division... in fact, it could open up an opportunity for other fighters to get in on tournaments where they otherwise might have been left off for the next one or given a fight that they end up losing anyways, then losing their opportunity for the next tournament. So I don't see the correlation if one fighter deviates for one fight, that it throws the entire division out of whack because it doesn't for any of the others. There might be more fighters in the men's divisions, but it'd cause the same effect in the men's divisions if that were the case, and it doesn't. |
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 31, 2016 18:01:48 GMT -5
i know what it comes down to sexism justin thinks holm should be in the kitchen not fighting rumble
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Post by The Sandmen on Mar 31, 2016 20:58:20 GMT -5
So I don't see the correlation if one fighter deviates for one fight, that it throws the entire division out of whack because it doesn't for any of the others. There might be more fighters in the men's divisions, but it'd cause the same effect in the men's divisions if that were the case, and it doesn't. No it would not. As I keep saying, you would understand this if you booked an entire season (or even a half-season, really). You have not, so you do not. That's pretty much the end of it, really. |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 1, 2016 14:25:50 GMT -5
So I don't see the correlation if one fighter deviates for one fight, that it throws the entire division out of whack because it doesn't for any of the others. There might be more fighters in the men's divisions, but it'd cause the same effect in the men's divisions if that were the case, and it doesn't. No it would not. As I keep saying, you would understand this if you booked an entire season (or even a half-season, really). You have not, so you do not. That's pretty much the end of it, really. No, it's not the end of it... You're making things up for yourself. It makes no difference... saying "book an entire season (or half)", says nothing... Show what you mean... EXACTLY... Booking has nothing to do with it other than you saying it does. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 1, 2016 15:43:58 GMT -5
It would probably be faster (and definitely easier) for you to book a whole season, lol. But here's the Spark Notes version:
When you book fighters for fights, they are not available for more fights. So I have 20 people to choose from (1 is the champ, 1 is the #1 contender) I have 18 people to choose from. Riiiight? K, now take 4 away for a current tournament. 14 available fighters. Then lets say 2 challenge for SUperfight. I have 12 fighters in an entire division to book EVEN fights for, in order to establish who, of those remaining 12, gets to be in the upcoming tournament. Difficult enough. Now factor in I have to balance the number of fights each team has in a season. Those two factors alone will mean that of those 12 remaining fighters, only about 8 will have good match-ups. Maybe 10. NOW. Fight History comes in. Odds are about 60% that of those 10 GOOD match-ups, at least 4 of them will have happened already in their last 4 fights. SO, unless you want to fight the same 4 fighters over and over and over again, you need as many women as possible available for booking, AND you need them to KEEP developing so they can get closer to where the elites in the division are.
That explanation covers both of your suggestions, really (about why I cannot raise the cap and about how losing women is a detriment to the site at this point in time).
If you still do not understand, then you probably need to just sim a season so you can see how what I just told you plays out in actual practice.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Apr 1, 2016 16:10:00 GMT -5
It would probably be faster (and definitely easier) for you to book a whole season, lol. But here's the Spark Notes version: When you book fighters for fights, they are not available for more fights. So I have 20 people to choose from (1 is the champ, 1 is the #1 contender) I have 18 people to choose from. Riiiight? K, now take 4 away for a current tournament. 14 available fighters. Then lets say 2 challenge for SUperfight. I have 12 fighters in an entire division to book EVEN fights for, in order to establish who, of those remaining 12, gets to be in the upcoming tournament. Difficult enough. Now factor in I have to balance the number of fights each team has in a season. Those two factors alone will mean that of those 12 remaining fighters, only about 8 will have good match-ups. Maybe 10. NOW. Fight History comes in. Odds are about 60% that of those 10 GOOD match-ups, at least 4 of them will have happened already in their last 4 fights. SO, unless you want to fight the same 4 fighters over and over and over again, you need as many women as possible available for booking, AND you need them to KEEP developing so they can get closer to where the elites in the division are. That explanation covers both of your suggestions, really (about why I cannot raise the cap and about how losing women is a detriment to the site at this point in time). If you still do not understand, then you probably need to just sim a season so you can see how what I just told you plays out in actual practice. Ummm... What you've explained there is valid, but really explains no difference than any other process with the other divisions and gives no reason to not allow women to go for the SF title. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Apr 2, 2016 12:38:19 GMT -5
Other divisions have about 30-35 fighters. So when you plug that in to all the explanation I just gave you, the available fighters are not 14, it's 24. Making good match-ups is exponential. With every 2-4 extra fighters I have, it gets MUCH easier to find a match for them. So, being that 24 is a remarkably higher number than 14 (nearly double), I have about 4-6 times as many booking options and rarely have any problems at all finding a good, fresh match for any male weight class.
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Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!