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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Oct 11, 2016 1:51:59 GMT -5
if were forgettin woman why u add a womans list?
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Post by The Sandmen on Oct 11, 2016 1:54:13 GMT -5
if were forgettin woman why u add a womans list? Didn't say forgetting. Just didn't get the same time as the men. If I put 5 hours into this list, about 85-90% of that time was spent on Men's MMA. "WMMA" history is far more shallow, and the reputable organizations are far fewer. Perhaps that is all the time that is needed to cover them in a sport that has been 90% dominated by men. But, as I said, if you see any omissions or anything, let me know. |
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Oct 11, 2016 2:22:57 GMT -5
if were forgettin woman why u add a womans list? Didn't say forgetting. Just didn't get the same time as the men. If I put 5 hours into this list, about 85-90% of that time was spent on Men's MMA. "WMMA" history is far more shallow, and the reputable organizations are far fewer. Perhaps that is all the time that is needed to cover them in a sport that has been 90% dominated by men. But, as I said, if you see any omissions or anything, let me know. our list of females id gay took m to singleasianwomen.com like fack off sandmen |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Oct 11, 2016 10:48:05 GMT -5
I never said it was all fake. I understand professional wrestling, fully and wholly. Which is why I am VERY comfortable with my assessment that it is not, nor will it ever be, MMA. They are in no way cross-over sports. Pro Wrestling is not a gateway into MMA. ACTUAL combat sports (amateur wrestling, boxing, Mauy thai, etc) ARE gateways. Of the guys you mentioned, Brock had a legit combat sports background (college wrestling), O'Haire had a mediocre-at-best MMA record (he lost to Butterbean... in his most "legit" fight), and Dave Bautista has had 1 fight...and he is 47. So for all intents and purposes, his career is over. To call him a "successful transition into MMA", based on our "Best of all time" litmus test is a joke. So, again, there is still no basis for your claim that any WWE wrestler who has had any MMA fights should be here. I'm very comfortable keeping CM Punk, Sean O'Haire, and and Dave Bautista off the ManMMA list. At this point, in the interest of actually going somewhere useful with this discussion, I would recomend you stop focussing on WWE fighters, since nothing about the new draft system excludes them. And you have not pitched a specific suggestion to include them, so I'm not even really sure why you are arguing WWE = MMA here. It's pretty irrelevant. If a WWE star was legit, he would find his want into a position to be on this broadly-encompassing list of eligible MMA stars. If not...he didn't make the cut. 1) We'll have to agree to disagree on that point then. Many pro wrestlers do have a collegiate wrestling background as well as being sports standouts of some sort or another. And really, if the UFC is going to give these athletes opportunities, then there is really no basis for you to be saying they aren't crossover platforms, that's just simply your opinion that they aren't. Which is fine, you're entitled to that... but don't sit there trying to pass it off as fact. lol As for "our" 'Best of All-Time litmus paper", that has never really been a litmus paper here in ManMMA, ever, despite your desire for it to be. The real joke here is that you're trying to rewind it back now after 17 seasons when the "damage" to your litmus paper has already been done. 2) There's plenty of basis for certain former pro wrestlers to be here. A pro MMA win is a pro MMA win, regardless of what your opinion of the individual is or your contention that wrestling is acting. I'm fine with keeping Punk out until he actually gets a win, if he ever does. I'm fine with keeping Scott Bigelow out cuz he'd be classified asin the same boat as Brooks; 1 fight/1 loss. That's fine, but I see no reason not to allow guys like O'Haire or keep Bautsta in. I mean, back when Lashley came in, he'd only just started fighting for Bellator, I believe, and look at him now. I understand that some are a bit of a novelty for avid wrestling fans, but to completely ban them all is completely ridiculous when even moderate success is still success. 3) Yah, you really have kinda pigeon-holed it so that guys like O'Haire can't be here... Hell, with that set of rules you're proposing, even a guy like Daniel Puder, who has an undefeated MMA record and fought for Strikeforce, is disqualified cuz he was never a "contender". As I said, I understand what you're trying to do, but after this long of none of this applying to ManMMA, this proposal is far too astringent. I agree that some guys shouldn't be here, or be here yet (ie. a Scott Bigelow or a Phil Brooks at this point, etc.) ...I get that. But not all of them just because they took a different path to get to MMA. And I have suggested a way to include them, if they have a pro MMA win, then they shouldn't be excluded. Period. I get that making them can be a pain in the ass, but if folks are going to draft them and develop them, then who are we to argue with them if they're happy with doing that. I'm certainly not going to begrudge them for it. I will say though that I'm actually happy to see that you're finally recognizing & acknowledging Invicta as a major promotion. That part is atleast a plus.  |
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Post by The Sandmen on Oct 11, 2016 12:40:39 GMT -5
Yes, Daniel Puder is ineligible for ManMMA. He has never beat anyone with a Wikipedia page, and has never fought on a Strikeforce main card. Being a career Prelim curtain-jerker is not ManMMA-material. You are actually doing more harm for your argument than good as you keep going farther down this path, lol.
But, more importantly than that... I come on and ask for suggestions for how we should carve our pumpkin. Rather than doing that, you are repeatedly arguing that apples are pumpkins. Stay focused, you are sidetracking yourself.
Anyone ELSE have specific, clear suggestions regarding omissions or oversights on the original list?
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Oct 11, 2016 15:23:10 GMT -5
How about if someone beats someone that fits the qualifications.
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Post by The Sandmen on Oct 11, 2016 15:35:56 GMT -5
Things like that I will be happy to look at on a case-by-case basis, but I don't want to do a blanket rule including everyone because old-school legends fought into their late 40s (since they made no money in the sport) and lost to pretty much everyone under the sun.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Oct 11, 2016 19:47:36 GMT -5
Yes, Daniel Puder is ineligible for ManMMA. He has never beat anyone with a Wikipedia page, and has never fought on a Strikeforce main card. Being a career Prelim curtain-jerker is not ManMMA-material. You are actually doing more harm for your argument than good as you keep going farther down this path, lol. But, more importantly than that... I come on and ask for suggestions for how we should carve our pumpkin. Rather than doing that, you are repeatedly arguing that apples are pumpkins. Stay focused, you are sidetracking yourself. Anyone ELSE have specific, clear suggestions regarding omissions or oversights on the original list? I'm not comparing apples to pumpkins at all. You specifically made points and asked me specific questions about exactly what I responded to. I am focused. What's your problem? |
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Oct 11, 2016 23:49:42 GMT -5
screw u n ur rules sandman when u get paid for beindga mma analyst i'll agree with ya until then ur just a regular fanboy with opinions (anderson silva n gina carano being the greatest blah)
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Post by The Sandmen on Oct 12, 2016 4:25:10 GMT -5
I'm not comparing apples to pumpkins at all. You specifically made points and asked me specific questions about exactly what I responded to. I am focused. What's your problem? So what are you suggesting be added to the list then? "Fighter must have fought in WWE and 1 pro MMA fight?" I donno man, I feel like that's a REALLY, REALLY low bar compared to everything else here. xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club (or even Austin if you want), if you actually wanted to do something productive to demonstrate to me how broken this list is, you could make a list of current ManMMA fighters who do not quality based on these criteria. It will help me see where the holes in the current list lie. |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Oct 12, 2016 9:20:36 GMT -5
I'm not comparing apples to pumpkins at all. You specifically made points and asked me specific questions about exactly what I responded to. I am focused. What's your problem? So what are you suggesting be added to the list then? "Fighter must have fought in WWE and 1 pro MMA fight?" I donno man, I feel like that's a REALLY, REALLY low bar compared to everything else here. xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club (or even Austin if you want), if you actually wanted to do something productive to demonstrate to me how broken this list is, you could make a list of current ManMMA fighters who do not quality based on these criteria. It will help me see where the holes in the current list lie. No, once again, all you're doing is trying to make a mockery of any sort of idea that doesn't align with your own views and opinions. I hate to agree with Normand here, but he's actually right. You're not, nor do you get paid to be an MMA analyst, nor are you any sort of expert on the sport. You're just a fan like the rest of us. All I've been saying this entire time is that if a fighter has a pro MMA win to their credit, they should he allowed admittance into ManMMA, as we've always done it, regardless of whether they were a pro wrestler, came to the sport from something else or you just think they're shit and shouldn't be here. We don't need a list for that. |
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Oct 12, 2016 9:23:19 GMT -5
I think there should be more guidelines than just won professional win, but I think the list is a little strict.
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Oct 12, 2016 9:32:33 GMT -5
I think there should be more guidelines than just won professional win, but I think the list is a little strict. Only a little?  lol I understand having a bit of a criteria, but after having done things the way we have for 17 seasons, these measures are far too late and will end up impacting our drafts moving forward more than Sandman is willing to admit. He's claiming that we have all these "Legends" on the free agent list, yet we still have folks taking newer fighters in the drafts, himself included... Obviously these "Legends" aren't fighters that he even wants on his team, let alone anyone else, so why beat a dead horse after this many seasons by making these stricter rules to get fighters into ManMMA that obviously no one wants anyways. It makes no sense to me. |
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Post by The Sandmen on Oct 12, 2016 11:35:33 GMT -5
You're not, nor do you get paid to be an MMA analyst, nor are you any sort of expert on the sport. You're just a fan like the rest of us. Funny you should say that because there was a time a few years ago Mike and I WERE paid to be MMA analysts, when we had our own MMA podcast on FvF. But you are redirecting things here. Fan or analyst, I'm still the unfortunate block who has the burden of this site on his shoulders, and I'm still adding some restrictions. So, if you guys want to be a part of that discussion rather than just sticking with the guidelines I put forth above, by all means please make a list of guys who are currently on ManMMA who would not be eligible to be here based on my proposed guidelines. That would be incredibly useful in seeing where I have left gaps in the current suggested criteria. Do that, I'll see where the excessive restrictions lie, then we can correct them. |
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Oct 12, 2016 15:56:53 GMT -5
On ManMMA not ManNXT correct?
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x8 
lol I understand having a bit of a criteria, but after having done things the way we have for 17 seasons, these measures are far too late and will end up impacting our drafts moving forward more than Sandman is willing to admit. He's claiming that we have all these "Legends" on the free agent list, yet we still have folks taking newer fighters in the drafts, himself included... Obviously these "Legends" aren't fighters that he even wants on his team, let alone anyone else, so why beat a dead horse after this many seasons by making these stricter rules to get fighters into ManMMA that obviously no one wants anyways. It makes no sense to me.
Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!
Jan 21, 2021 13:09:55 GMT -5
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Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!
Jan 21, 2021 13:09:55 GMT -5
*
