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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 6, 2015 16:51:55 GMT -5
phx u make no sense u want a list 4 women and u dont want a list ur confizzled, 2 my list is ignored 3 my list was better 4 a silva cant beat w silva making the whole suggestion moot Well, if I can actually decipher your Cannon-ese there.... um... I'm looking at the lesser of two evils here Normand. More folks seem to be ok with this than don't. If this is what's going to be the standard, I'm looking to get the best senario for everyone in the league, and including the women's division. Cuz it makes more sense that if we are doing this that the women's cap get revamped too. I don't like it, but what other choice is there? Keep yabbering at Sandman til he gets so pissed off that he makes it completely uncomfortable for everyone? Not my way man... If this is going to be the way it is, then we have to help the process not hinder it. |
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Post by xx - The Broad Street Bullies on Mar 6, 2015 17:42:11 GMT -5
Lesser of 2 evils?
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 6, 2015 18:27:04 GMT -5
my list is still better atleast it has divisions xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club also im glad caranos 18th ranked woman fighter and i didnt see dalelio on the list #33 at all also ur just going along with it cause u know sandmen hitlering it in is that what u said in pm? |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 6, 2015 18:40:49 GMT -5
Sandman will understand that better than you will... so here's the skinny: Back when we introduced the cap, I was actually "staff"... I initially wanted a flat cap of 85 or 86, I believe, for all divisions... I also provided a soft cap senario whereby champions and name fighters, current contenders, etc. could circumvent the cap byt a couple of points... that didn't fly. Sandman wanted the women weaker than the men; for "realism".... Though Rousey, Carano, Cyborg, Kaufman, Davis or hell even D'Alelio could take most men at their weight class. It made no sense to me, but I fought and lost. We got 84 for men and 78 for women; which was a crime for the women. So, flash forward to now... I'm not staff anymore, obviously... but we're again in a cap debate... and no offense to anyone else, but I'm the guy that's gotta step up and make this right for everyone now. I was in the thick of it before... and I was opposed to it before too.. but if this one is going to work, it's gotta be fair and it's going to include the women too. Simple... yet complicated. lol |
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Post by xx - The Broad Street Bullies on Mar 6, 2015 18:44:05 GMT -5
78 for women seems quite low.
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 6, 2015 18:52:28 GMT -5
yeah 78 is low and if claudia ghadela can beat men youtube it than rousey would have no problem armbarring demetrious johnson who seems 2 be a top 100 i think..
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Post by xx - The Broad Street Bullies on Mar 6, 2015 19:15:36 GMT -5
Yes, and if I'm recalling, Rousey was top 40 on that list.
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Post by The Sandmen on Mar 6, 2015 21:01:01 GMT -5
78 for women seems quite low. This is complicated to explain in text format, but let's see what I can do to make text-sense of this for you. (Also, xx - Camp Cannon and xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club, I am NOT debating the merits of the female cap at this time, nor soon. I am just explaining HOW they came to be where they are now, so please don't bother harassing me about them here - we will have that discussion another time). Okay. Here we go... From the beginning, when women came in and we did not have upgrades, I wanted the women to fight noticably different then men. So I brought them in around 10 overalls lower then men. The result, at the time, was perfect. Their fights were more like real life WMMA fights. More decisions, more technique, less KOs. Average man was about about 76 overall, average woman about 66 overall. Then we brought in upgrading. Everything was going okay with upgrading, though far, far off in my mind I knew we had to do something "one day" about letting someone cap right out at 100 overall. When I tested 100 overall fights in the program, 100 overall vs. 100 overall resulted in decisions every time. No one had any area of advantage, thus no one did anything meaningful and they SUCKED. But that was a problem for like, 3-5 real life years away. Or so I thought. xx - Camp Cannon tells me, onsite and off, that he has full intentions of maxing Rousey out at 100 so "no one can beat her ever". And he was very active on the site and was upgrading her VERY heavily, making that a very realistic goal. I asked him to do me a personal favour (we are real-life friends) and slow down. He said no. I warned him I would have to make rules. He did not slow down, and finally had Rousey up to about 76 or so. Then I had to bring in caps. We tried a couple different things, main one I think being the soft cap - you could only upgrade someone a certain percentage higher than the champ. Because this changed all the time, it made things complicated fast, and I don't remember how, but Cannon developed a loophole that he had started to exploit with that. Pretty sure it had to do with cheering AGAINST his champion so he could upgrade them more...something like that. It was stupid and annoying. There were other stupid reasons in there too, but I forget a lot of those. But we scrapped that. After testing, 84 was a good cap hard for men. They came in at 77ish, and after the 30 or so upgrades, they had an identity, they had GOOD strengths, and 1 or 2 exploitable weaknesses. This allowed you to max out about 6 stats and be okay at the rest. Good number. But in the women's division, we had established a very clear VERY WIDE spread between the Good and Average fighters. There were 5 women (Rousey, Carano, Kaufman, Cyborg and eventualyl, to a much lesser extent, D'A'elio). Then there was everyone else. Moral. The women's division was shallow and pointless, since upgrading someone to even get NEAR those 5 was a huge task (40-50 points). Especially if they could KEEP getting upgraded. So we (I, i should say) put in a much stricter hard cap of 78 for them. The result of this, which we still see today, is a VERY wide divide between the average female and the best females. It was a gap that was no where near as wide with the men. I have told xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club (and just did so 6 minutes ago on the phone) that I am, and will continue to be, opposed to any raise in the female cap until the average females are brought up a lot farther. We are seeing that happen more and more, but until the division levels off some, there is no point in letting the best get better when the average female is still about 40 upgrades from being near those top few. And that is where we are at today. 78 for women, 84 for men. |
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 6, 2015 21:15:51 GMT -5
#1 Ronda Rousey ranked #52 pg 2
#2 Cristiane "Cyborg" Justino ranked #61 pg 2
#3 Megumi Fujii ranked #80 pg 2
#4 Marloes "Rumina" Coenen ranked # 122 pg 3
#5 Sarah Kaufmann ranked #125 pg 3
#6 Yuka "Vale Tudo Queen" Tsuji ranked #126 pg 3
#7 Tara Larosa ranked #129 pg3
#8 Miesha "Cupcake" Tate ranked #132 Pg 3
#9 Jessica "Jag" Aguilar ranked #133 pg3
#10 Jennifer Howe ranked # 137 pg3
#11 Roxanne "The Happy Warrior" Modafferi ranked #146 pg3
#12 Alexis "Ally-Gator" Davis ranked #148 pg3
#13 "Little Warrior" Barb Honchak ranked #151 pg4
#14 Hisae Watanabe ranked #159 pg 4
#15 Satoko "Princess" Shinashi #160 pg 4
#16 Amanda Buckner ranked #172 pg 4
#17 Miku "Supernova" Matsumoto #174 pg4
#18 Laura D'Auguste ranked #203 pg5
#19 Gina "Conviction" Carano #206 pg5
#20 Takayo Hashi ranked #214 pg 5
#21 "The Warrior Princess" Zoila Frausto-Gurgel ranked #227 pg 5
#22 Hitomi "Girlfight Monster" Akano ranked #241 pg 5
#23 Yuuki "Cool Fighter" Kondo #252 pg6
#24 Ayaka Hamasaki ranked #256 pg 6
#25 Sarah Mcmann ranked #266 pg 6
#26 Erin "Steel" Toughill #276 pg 6
#27 Herica Tiburcio ranked #323 pg 7
#28 Ashlee Evans-Smith ranked #324 pg 7
#29 Cat Zigano ranked #327 pg 7
#30 Jessica Evil EYE #328 pg 7
#31 Carla Esparza ranked #332 pg7
#32 Joanna J?drzejczyk ranked #337 pg 7
#33 Joannne JOJO Calderwood ranked #346 pg 7
here a list of female fighter from sandmen so called all time greatest list he said its communism to not have A-B-C fighters so don't let him commy up the females as well and keep them at a low ratinbg such as 78 or whatever PHX said it was look at carano im sure she close to 78 yet being ranked 19th on the list maybe if we went by hotness she be first in league but its not a hotness list.. SANDMEN WANTS REALISM AND UNCOMMUNIS FOR THE MEN AND NOIT THE WOMEN CAUSE LOOK WHERE CARANO IS ON THAT LIST GIMME A FUCKING BREAK...
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 6, 2015 21:18:13 GMT -5
ALSO IT CAUSE NOBODY UPGRADES THIER WOMEN HOMIE WHY SHOULD THE ONES THAT DO UPGRADE THEM BE PUNISHED AND COMMIED UP, U SUCH A HYPOCRITE
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 6, 2015 22:29:39 GMT -5
I can confirm that what The Sandmen said is accurate as to accounts of what happened as it happened, but I still believe the women's cap should've been and should be at 80 to this point. He claims his argument holds water, but he neglected to mention the rise of Coenen, Carmouche, Gurgel. Murphy, Tate & even Holm to that group from the time of the cap inception. He has his quota... he just refuses to acknowledge it. Just saying... it's not anyone's fault that no one can beat Carano, right? |
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Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 6, 2015 23:06:18 GMT -5
yeah 78 is low and if claudia ghadela can beat men youtube it than rousey would have no problem armbarring demetrious johnson who seems 2 be a top 100 i think.. *facepalm* Ummm... Normand... That was Ediane Gomes, not Claudia Gadelha... lol |
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 6, 2015 23:23:12 GMT -5
yeah 78 is low and if claudia ghadela can beat men youtube it than rousey would have no problem armbarring demetrious johnson who seems 2 be a top 100 i think.. *facepalm* Ummm... Normand... That was Ediane Gomes, not Claudia Gadelha... lol also sandmen wants it realistic then cyborg or rousey should be champ n gina carano not as upgradeable as rousey or cyborg as she nowhere near the top of woman list come on sandmen stop the communism and bring on the realism... |
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Post by xx - The Broad Street Bullies on Mar 6, 2015 23:27:34 GMT -5
Cannon, this isn't communism. We're not the Soviet Union or Red China. Calm down.
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Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 6, 2015 23:30:42 GMT -5
Cannon, this isn't communism. We're not the Soviet Union or Red China. Calm down. sandmen said it was communism to keep the men as-is all at a equal percentage or cap Sandmens words not mine!! so if he wants realism so guys like GSP and anderson silva are the best then it should be the same for the women!! |
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Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!