|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 6, 2015 23:52:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 6, 2015 23:59:34 GMT -5
but he neglected to mention the rise of Coenen, Carmouche, Gurgel. Murphy, Tate & even Holm to that group from the time of the cap inception. They have all been developed since the cap. If there was no cap, Cannon would not have worked on Holm, and I worked on Tate and Gurgel myself for the very reason I said originally - there were no women to compete with the top tier. Coenen was Rocketmen's female project after I bitched at him that we had a stuck-group of 4 women. He's a good guy, helpin a fellow out with problems like that. But again, half of that list is because of the cap, not in spite of it. Even now, Cannon is working on VanZant because Holm is maxed. Again, bringing the depth of the division up. Proving my cap is working and it is damn good where it is. I lift the cap, D'Alelio and Rousey end up with the next female upgrades, instead of Davis or Holm, or VanZant, etc, etc. Also, xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club, who doesn't appreciate some AC/DC? |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 7, 2015 0:13:32 GMT -5
but he neglected to mention the rise of Coenen, Carmouche, Gurgel. Murphy, Tate & even Holm to that group from the time of the cap inception. They have all been developed since the cap. If there was no cap, Cannon would not have worked on Holm, and I worked on Tate and Gurgel myself for the very reason I said originally - there were no women to compete with the top tier. Coenen was Rocketmen's female project after I bitched at him that we had a stuck-group of 4 women. He's a good guy, helpin a fellow out with problems like that. But again, half of that list is because of the cap, not in spite of it. Even now, Cannon is working on VanZant because Holm is maxed. Again, bringing the depth of the division up. Proving my cap is working and it is damn good where it is. I lift the cap, D'Alelio and Rousey end up with the next female upgrades, instead of Davis or Holm, or VanZant, etc, etc. well maybe not d;alelio as she wouldnt be rank a,b,c but rousey yes.. and only the same 4 -5 ppl upgraded there females (me,phx,sandmen,rocketmen, gap) n we get punished.. where is this realism u speak of?? if u cant provide it for the females then don't provide for the men.. punish me 4 upgrading my woman cap me for upgrading my woman no realism how the fuck u gonna say paige vanzant (in the future prolly next season) is better than or equal to that of ronda rousey thats not right at all |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 7, 2015 1:08:31 GMT -5
but he neglected to mention the rise of Coenen, Carmouche, Gurgel. Murphy, Tate & even Holm to that group from the time of the cap inception. They have all been developed since the cap. If there was no cap, Cannon would not have worked on Holm, and I worked on Tate and Gurgel myself for the very reason I said originally - there were no women to compete with the top tier. Coenen was Rocketmen's female project after I bitched at him that we had a stuck-group of 4 women. He's a good guy, helpin a fellow out with problems like that. But again, half of that list is because of the cap, not in spite of it. Even now, Cannon is working on VanZant because Holm is maxed. Again, bringing the depth of the division up. Proving my cap is working and it is damn good where it is. I lift the cap, D'Alelio and Rousey end up with the next female upgrades, instead of Davis or Holm, or VanZant, etc, etc. Also, xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club, who doesn't appreciate some AC/DC? i work on my women have been for last 5 seasons obviously one will get capped work on the next no duh but since i dont work on my men and now i cant catch up to them because u put in sum stupid new realism rule for them and not 4 the women where rousey ranked 52 on a list of about 350 ppl, having me keep upgrading woman all the time that are equal to Rousey should not happen what u scared of bro appearantly to u my other women have the chance to beat rousey even at her new overall % because its how u build theM brahh or u scared that im going to make rousey tOo good and carano who realisticially shouldn't be champ not being the champ... WHERES THE REALISM BRAH U CANT BE A HYPOCRIT N MAKE IT FOR THE MEN N BNOT THE WOMEN IFF NOT I WANT ALL OF HOLM ROUSEYS VANZANT UPGRADES BACK FOR MY MEN N SCRAP THE UNREALISTIC WOMEN LEAGUE BECAUSE ONLY 4 PPPL UPGRADE THIER WOMEN .. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 7, 2015 2:04:38 GMT -5
I SPENT 172 POINTS (nOT INCLUDING DRAFT OR BUYS) INTO THE WOMEN LEAGUE ID LIKE BACK I WILL ACCUMULATES EVERYONES WOMEN POINTS LATER ON N WE SHOULD GET THOSE POINTS BACK AND DROP THE WOMENS LEAGUE IF IT NOT GOING TO BE RUN AND REALISTIC & FAIR LIKE THE MENS LEAGUE
|
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 7, 2015 2:27:00 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by xx - Camp Cannon on Mar 7, 2015 2:30:43 GMT -5
yes no more womens league if it cant be runned like the mens and be realistic i provided u a list of 33 girls thats 11 a's 11 b's 11c's for ya rating 82, 81, 80, and rest of women 78s dont see why it cant be done it was done for the men.. the 78 should realistically be bale to beat the 82 in your theory with the men if thier upgraded properly..
|
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 7, 2015 2:40:56 GMT -5
If it means so much to you, I will gladly use your list to tweak the cap. 1-5 are As - cap at 78 6-15 are Bs - cap at 77 16-25 are Cs - cap at 76 Everyone else cap at 74 If you want WMMA realism, those numbers will get you that. I doubt you will have xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on board with these numbers, though, but this is what I am prepared to do right now with the women. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 7, 2015 9:35:35 GMT -5
If it means so much to you, I will gladly use your list to tweak the cap. 1-5 are As - cap at 78 6-15 are Bs - cap at 77 16-25 are Cs - cap at 76 Everyone else cap at 74 If you want WMMA realism, those numbers will get you that. I doubt you will have xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on board with these numbers, though, but this is what I am prepared to do right now with the women. Lmao that's not realism, that Sandman BS :-P You keep forgetting that they are of themselves in the league and don't move into the men's ranks. Having them "weaker for realism" is kind of a moot point seeing as how rarely ever fight any men. It really doesn't make much sense to have them as low as they are, especially when you consider that we've only had 2 of the capped become champion, ever....and since the advent of the cap, we've really only seen an uncapped Carano still at the top of the division, more often than not... that's not a complaint; it's just a fact. We have seen the rise of Carmouche, Coenen & Murphy but when look at the reality of it, Carano vacated the title then promptly fought her way through everyone and she's now the champion once again with no real threat in sight from anyone. To me that says that the cap is a touch too low and has been since the beginning when the entire division is still the Carano show lol A cap of 80-82 would be much more sufficient at this stage knowing what we now know about upgrades but also the fact that we still have an uncapped and virtually unbeatable champion in Carano still. It's time for a small bump up for the girls now too Sandman... it's just the truth. |
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 7, 2015 17:09:13 GMT -5
we've really only seen an uncapped Carano still at the top of the division, Factually incorrect. Cris Cyborg had 12 title defences when she was not capped. She has won the belt since then as well. And she has received far fewer upgrades than Carano. Murphy is also not capped, and was champion. It's time for a small bump up for the girls now too Sandman... it's just the truth. 100% not happening. Especially right now. Average male - 76 Capped male - 81-85 Average female - 63 Capped female - 78 I explained this to Cannon. If you want the cap for women to go up, EVERY SINGLE WOMAN needs to go up by about 5 overalls to being the spread between the average female and the average male closer. Since this creates a practical impossibility once we reach fighters over 72, and since the bump would actually punish people who HAVE been upgrading their women, it would make no sense to do that. Not unless you want the rest of the league to get 20-30 free upgrades on all their women when you (and Cannon) had to spend points to get your select few into the top 10. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - The Broad Street Bullies on Mar 7, 2015 17:37:11 GMT -5
Average male - 76 Capped male - 81-85 Average female - 63 Capped female - 78 Now that makes sense as to why the female cap is lower. |
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 7, 2015 20:22:29 GMT -5
@ The Sandmen: Factually, I am correct about Cyborg... her last title win was versus a just as neglected Kaufman after Carano dropped the title whereas Carano hasn't lost a title fight since ManMMA 140. Cyborg's 12 defense streak came well prior to a cap and prior to anyone breaking through the top 3 as well; Carano is effectively, currently, on an 11 defense streak being she dropped the title and essentially got it right back. My point is that even as adept as Rocketman is at upgrading, the work he did with Coenen wasn't even enough to break her through that ceiling... there's something inherently wrong with that when one of the best at upgrading on the site isn't able to turn a great fighter like Coenen is already, into a champion but your uncapped fighter has been on top of the league right from the beginning witout so much as a single slump to be spoken of...ever lol There is something hugely wrong there, as good as Carano was IRL, she wasn't THAT good lol and you can't say it's all due to upgrading because she's been the best in the league since the beginning.. |
|
|
|
Post by The Sandmen on Mar 7, 2015 22:12:37 GMT -5
I have no idea how this turns into a discussion about Carano. She has lost several times, before, during, and after having a belt.
The issue you have not addressed (since there is no solution to it at this time) is the ACTUAL problem - the 63-78 range. As I said, once that is fixed (which is happening now because of the cap) we can start looking at a female cap. Until then, we're no where near a point where it makes sense to raise the cap on women when the top are so far from the average.
|
|
|
|
Post by xx - Former Phoenix Fight Club on Mar 8, 2015 9:11:11 GMT -5
I have no idea how this turns into a discussion about Carano. She has lost several times, before, during, and after having a belt. The issue you have not addressed (since there is no solution to it at this time) is the ACTUAL problem - the 63-78 range. As I said, once that is fixed (which is happening now becaUuse of the cap) we can start looking at a female cap. Until then, we're no where near a point where it makes sense to raise the cap on women when the top are so far from the average. 1) The discussion turns to, and will always turn to Carano because Carano has not lost several times. lol She has 9 losses total since the women got brought in; that's not even 1 loss per season average. She's the best fighter in ManMMA and that really doesn't seem right to me, as much as I like Carano, because we have fighters in this league like Cyborg, Rousey, Kaufman, Coenen, Fujii, Tsuji, Davis, Zingano, etc. that were/are all better than Carano ever was in her time. I know you don't like hearing that, but it's the truth bro. 2) You keep talking about this ratio of 63-78 of being the actual problem. Well, I can agree with that too, except that the only one that's had any control over how the women have been created is you. You've made them that inferior. If these are supposed to be world class fighters, which virtually all the women we have in the league are, then they really should be created as such too, and I'm sorry to say, 63 is not world class bro; none of them should really be lower than 70. So, it's little wonder we've been having the problems we've had with the women's division and why it takes so much to male any woman really good, not even just compared to the men, but also to the original women created as well. And your refusal to even look at that is a cause for concern... maybe the women do need a bit of an overhaul because the gap really is too large between how good or how bad a fighter is in that division when you consider how many top women there are IRL and our top fighter in this league isn't even a top 10 fighter of all time according to your "objective" list and it takes most women an average of 25-30 points in upgrades to barely even scratch the surface of being able to compete then it only leaves about 10-15 points remaining, maximum, before they're capped... and as we've seen with everyone, save maybe Murphy, where the capped fighters in the women's division are just barely good enough to win a tournament once in a while, let alone even win the title. You want realism in the league but you're refusing to look at the one division in the league that there is virtually no realism to be spoken of at all. lol If it's possible, I'll even help with whatever needs to be done to get this fixed... but if you're asking us to be more honest with ourselves about our male fighters with your proposal for your new men's cap, then so too do we need to be more honest and realistic about the women's cap as well. Also, punishing Cannon and I for opposing you on this new cap idea isn't the answer either nor is what you suggested for the women's cap as we currently sit, because that just makes it worse. If you're open to looking at it and discussing it instead of digging in your heels about it, then we really can make it better for everyone and not just a select few. |
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Mar 8, 2015 10:18:15 GMT -5
So anyways
|
|
lol
Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!
Jan 21, 2021 13:09:55 GMT -5
*
Have 9 points in celebration of this monumental achievement!
Jan 21, 2021 13:09:55 GMT -5
*
